ABACO (Hansard, 10 June 1974)

LORD BELHAVEN AND STENTON
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, the Abaco Islands are an integral part of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, which became an independent sovereign State on July 10, 1973. It would not therefore be appropriate for Her Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom to seek to intervene in the internal affairs of the Bahamas.

LORD BELHAVEN AND STENTON
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply and appreciate what he says. I think that certain people on the other side of the Atlantic may possibly think that the content of what he has said is rather regrettable. However, may I ask whether or not the noble Lord considers that within less than a year of the independence of the Bahamas Her Majesty's Government still have an obligation to the inhabitants of a group of Islands who, by a quite clear majority before independence, declared their wish to remain British subjects?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I appreciate what the noble Lord has said. Of course we have the obligation of friendship, of co-membership of the Commonwealth and of being, in fact, two sovereign States under the same Queen, and at any time we are ready to confer with and, indeed, to advise and help the Government of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas in any matter about which they think we can be helpful. However, your Lordships' House will recall that both Houses of Parliament last year very fully debated this question of particularist interests in the Abaco Islands, before it was decided that independence should be granted. It was then found that the overwhelming opinion of the people of the proposed Commonwealth of the Bahamas was in favour of an integral State of the kind which I have described.

§ LORD ORR-EWING
My Lords, would the noble Lord remember that the people of Abaco particularly desired to remain a Crown Colony? This was against the wishes of Her Majesty's Government at the time. Surely now that they are being persecuted and harassed, and more particularly so the coloured people in that Island, is it not reasonable that we should make representations that this should cease and that they should be given proper justice, as they deserve?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I must repeat that it would be inappropriate for this country to intervene in the internal affairs of an independent member of the Commonwealth. In any case, I have no evidence of the kind of harassment which the noble Lord has in mind. I think we should proceed fairly carefully here. Possibly this exchange, together with many things which were said in the two debates held last year, will be taken note of in a friendly way by the Government of the Bahamas.

§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE
My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that while enunciating the doctrine which we on this side of the House certainly respect, of non-intervention in the internal affairs of other sovereign States, it would be well that such a doctrine should be applied equally elsewhere, for example in South America or in Greece or in South Africa?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I think it is a question, ceteris paribus, in respect of which we must proceed from case to case; and certainly the Commonwealth of the Bahamas is not to be equated with any of the countries listed by the noble Earl.

§ LORD REIGATE
My Lords, while agreeing that we must proceed from case to case, can the noble Lord say in what respect this case differs from that of Anguilla?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, this is the case of an independent country, whereas Anguilla is still in special relationship to this country.

LORD BELHAVEN AND STENTON
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I do know that there is harassment and persecution of the supporters of the Abaco Independence Movement in Abaco? But in regard to his very reasonable reply to my Question, could he not urge upon the Government of the Bahamas that conciliation and consultation with the people of Abaco in order to solve this particular problem would, in the long run be in the interests of the Bahamas, rather than the rather stupid and petty persecution and harassment in which they are indulging at the present time?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I can do that now. I am quite sure that every Member of both Houses of Parliament would strongly hope that the new Member State of the Commonwealth of the Bahamas (as it calls itself), a democracy under the same Queen, will keep in mind the need, especially in the first few crucial years of independence, to cohere as fully as possible all elements within its territory and its peoples.

§ LORD BARNBY
My Lords, in recognising the difficulty of definition, in the case to which my noble friend has just drawn attention, would the Minister agree that there have been many incidents raised in this House which seem to be of less importance than this one? Particularly would the noble Lord recall the case of an English boy being apprehended in Turkey? I recollect that twelve minutes of the time of the House was taken in vehement denunciations of 230 the Turkish Government, and from my recollection action was taken. Would not that be an indication of the necessity to consider this matter in the way indicated by my noble friend?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I think this really reinforces what I have said about proceeding from case to case. The case mentioned by the noble Lord affected a United Kingdom national. I have no evidence of any harassment, certainly of United Kingdom nationals, in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas.

§ LORD BARNBY
My Lords, in the case of the incident in Turkey, would not the noble Lord recognise how improper the action taken turned out to be? The boy was a thoroughly unsatisfactory boy, a member of a most reprehensible family, and therefore the action taken was wrong. However, of course I recognise the difficulty of the noble Lord.

§ LORD SLATER
My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that while it may be proper to listen to many supplementary questions on this particular matter, after the decision taken by the Government of this country to give a particular form of independence to these people so that they could decide for themselves what ought to be done within their own territory, is it not time that we were prepared to climb clown instead of trying to nullify even the action which we have already taken on behalf of these people?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, independence is independence. Of course we have the obligation of friendship. I stress this, and this is really the relationship between us and any other Member State, especially of the Commonwealth.

LORD BELHAVEN AND STENTON
My Lords, I apologise for intervening, for the last time, but is the noble Lord aware that I think his noble friend has the wrong end of the stick? These people were denied—

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, I suspect we are now entering into a debate. We have been dealing with this Question for nine minutes. I have expressed appreciation that we have a clock, and I think we ought now to move to the next Question.