HL Deb 23 July 1974 vol 353 cc1552-4
THE EARL OF KINNOULL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follow:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they consider that in view of the support at the last General Election for the Liberal Party remuneration from the public purse should be granted to the Leader and Chief Whip of that Party in both Houses.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHEPHERD)

My Lords, I cannot speculate whether the leaders of the Liberal Party may become persons specified in the Ministerial and Other Salaries Act 1972.

THE EARL OF KINNOULL

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord the Leader of the House for that speculative reply, and while accepting the difficulties of creating a precedent and the possibility, of course, of the Parliamentary Liberal Party being somewhat depleted at the next General Election, would the noble Lord the Leader of the House agree that when a Parliamentary Party comes close to forming and joining as a member a Coalition Government, and when that Party commands over 23 per cent.of the electorate's confidence, there is a case for proper recognition of that Party, particularly when so many of its better ideas are so often borrowed by successive Labour Governments?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I have no intention of joining the speculation about a possible coalition between noble Lords opposite and the Liberal Party. The noble Earl will be aware that this Government made recommendations and are now in consultation with the Parties in opposition about financial assistance for the performance of Parliamentary duty. Those conversations are proceeding, and I suggest that we should leave it there.

LORD BYERS

My Lords, while I am most grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, for asking this Question—there is no collusion here—and while I fully appreciate that the noble Lord the Leader of the House himself would not wish to speculate, is there not something we can have by way of reclamation from the public purse?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I was not aware that the noble Lord needed reclamation; but if he does, no doubt some of his friends in another place will help him.

LORD CASTLE

My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that on yesterday's showing on the Industrial Relations Bill such a use of public funds would be another means of subvention to the Tory Party?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I did notice a degree of coalition yesterday in the Division Lobbies, right or wrong, but that is a Parliamentary opportunity that is available to the Liberals and the Tories. But I do not think, if I may say so, that it arises out of the Question which is on the Order Paper.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that the Liberal Party is now officially recognised and that we cannot avoid that? And now that they are officially recognised, why not make honest women of them?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, there are certain things I can do and there are certain things I cannot do. In regard to that, I think I will leave the matter there.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, is the Minister aware that since 1920, when the Liberals had a coalition with the Tory Party, the lion has swallowed the lamb and the Liberals were in the wilderness for years, and that it will happen again if they do it this time?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, if they do they will have done it with a great deal of warning; but whether they will or not I do not know. Perhaps only events will show. My guess is that they will not have the opportunity, certainly in the next twelve months.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, would the noble Lord accept from Back-Benchers on this side of the House that we greatly appreciate his leadership of the House before he demits office in the ordinary course of events?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, the noble Earl is very kind, but I do not think this is an occasion for obituaries.