HL Deb 18 July 1974 vol 353 cc1229-31

3.17 p.m.

LORD BEAUMONT OF WHITLEY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the Lord Chancellor will direct that the cost of appeals against the Inland Revenue arising from decisions by the Charity Commissioners should be paid out of public funds where those appeals raise significant points of law.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD ELWYN-JONES)

My Lords, I am afraid it would not be proper for public funds to be used to guarantee the costs, win or lose, of litigants in the circumstances envisaged by the noble Lord.

LORD BEAUMONT OF WHITLEY

My Lords, while thanking the noble and learned Lord for that rather disappointing Answer, may I ask him whether he is aware that potential charities are rightly chary of using the money they raise in this matter, which means that there is an effective block to any appeal against the Inland Revenue. Is that not against the public interest? Would it not be in the public interest for there to be a little more clarity in what, I think, everyone agrees is a rather murky and indistinct part of the English law?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I am afraid I cannot agree with the description of the State of the law in relation to charities as "murky", but if there are any aspects of it which the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont of Whitley, would care to bring to my notice, I will certainly see that they are investigated. In so far as there are problems in this field, I am very happy, arising out of the Question of the noble Lord, to communicate directly with the Charity Commissioners to see whether I can be of assistance. The difficulty about granting so to speak unlimited legal aid freely out of public funds is that there are a very large number of competitors for help from that source.

LORD BEAUMONT OF WHITLEY

My Lords, while thanking the noble and learned Lord for that much more helpful answer to my supplementary question, may I ask him whether he is aware that my original Question was only for assistance to be given where it can be certified that the matter did, in fact, raise an important point of law? Surely these are the areas which need to be further investigated.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I took note of the purport of the Question of the noble Lord, if I may say so. The difficulty is that every potential litigant thinks his case an unanswerable point of law.

LORD DAVIES OF LEEK

Is my noble and learned and charitable friend aware that some of us may even think that the benevolent profession known as the legal profession may be able to give a little charitable service free to the Charity Commissioners' when they find themselves in this position? Can the noble and learned Lord now sitting on the Woolsack explore that possibility, because his profession is loaded with benevolent people?

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, tributes to my former profession are rare, and it is very welcome to receive them. I think I am right in saying that the legal profession makes a significant contribution in this field by accepting a reduction of a percentage of its funds, and the gates of charity are always open.