§ 4.15 p.m.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.
§ Moved, that the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House in Committee accordingly.
§ [The Earl of Listowel in the Chair.]
§ Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.
§ Clause 5 [Amount of improvement grant].
§
LORD HUGHES moved Amendment No. 1:
Page 5, line 10, leave out (" works of repair and replacement") and insert ("improvement works ").
§ The noble Lord said: Your Lordships will have noticed that there are a considerable number of Amendments to this Bill, but I assure you that all of them are drafting in character. The first of these—and Amendment No. 2 is on the same subject—is a purely drafting Amendment to correct an error made when the other place amended this rather
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
490§ LORD HUGHESI beg to move Amendment No. 2.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 5, line 15, leave out ("works of repair and replacement") and insert ("improvement works ").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 5, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clauses 6 to 8 agreed to.
§ Clause 9 [Conditions to be observed with respect to houses in respect of which an improvement grant has been made, and registration thereof]:
§
LORD HUGHES moved Amendment No. 3:
Page 9, line 12, leave out (" housing association ") and insert ("registered housing association ").
§ The noble Lord said: Amendments Nos. 3, 4 and 19 all deal with the same subject. They are purely drafting Amendments. Because the provisions for the registering of housing associations are contained in the Housing Bill it was not possible, according to convention, to refer in the Scottish Bill to "registered housing associations" until the English Bill was before this House. It is now in order to do so, and therefore the Amendments are tabled. I beg to move.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD HUGHESI beg to move Amendment No. 4.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 9, line 13, at end insert ("; and "registered "has the same meaning as in section 111(2) of the Housing Act 1974.").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 9, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clauses 10 to 15 agreed to.
§ Clause 16 [Declaration of housing action areas for improvement]:
§ 4.19 p.m.
§ LORD HUGHESAmendment No. 5 is a drafting Amendment to achieve consistency of wording. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 15, line 26, leave out ("will") and insert (" shall ").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ VISCOUNT SIMONI hesitate to intervene in a Scottish Bill, and I recognise that our common language is not always 491 used in exactly the same way in Scotland and in England, but it seems to me that this search for consistency results in a piece of very bad grammar. The purpose of this subsection is to state that certain things shall be done, the effect of which is that "the houses in the area" will meet the standard. That seems to me to be the ordinary English expression, not that the houses in the area shall meet the standard. That is the effect of the action taken on the first of the subsections which is quite correctly expressed as "shall" because it is the authoritative future, but the "will" is just a perfectly ordinary future saying that as a result of the action taken the houses will meet that standard. Will the noble Lord consider looking again at this point between now and Report stage?
§ LORD HUGHESI hesitate to enter into a disputation with the noble Viscount on the question of which is the better grammar, either in England or in Scotland. But, on the off chance that he may be right—which I think is more likely—and rather than making this Amendment and then returning to the matter at a later stage, I shall beg leave to withdraw it with the permission of the Committee, so that we may re-examine it and decide whether the draftsman's first thoughts were more grammatically correct than his second. If it should turn out that it is desirable to follow his second line, I will re-table the Amendment at Report stage.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§
LORD HUGHES moved Amendment No. 5A:
Page 15, line 29, leave out from (" area ") to the end of line 31.
§ The noble Lord said: I should draw your Lordships' attention to Amendment No. 6. It leaves out the words "or shall be brought up to." When I looked at my brief this morning I found that the purpose of Amendment No. 6 was to remove some superfluous words. But when I compared it with the Bill, I discovered that there were a number of other words which could be regarded as superfluous. Working on the basis that it is always desirable, to take out many unnecessary words rather than a few, I tabled the manuscript Amendment No. 5A which, 492 therefore, takes the place of Amendment No. 6. I beg to move.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 16, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 17 [Declaration of housing action areas for demolition and improvement.]
§ LORD HUGHESAmendment No. 7 is consequential on the previous Amendment. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 16, line 21, leave out from ("area") to the end of line 22 and insert (" shall meet that standard ").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 17, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clauses 18 to 34 agreed to.
§ Clause 35 [Local authority may control occupation of houses in housing action area.]:
§
LORD HUGHES moved Amendment No. 8:
Page 30, line 12, leave out (" any ") and insert (" that ").
§ The noble Lord said: Amendments Nos. 8 and 9 serve the same purpose. They are drafting Amendments, consequential on Amendments made to the clause at Report stage in another place. I beg to move Amendment No. 8.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD HUGHESI beg to move Amendment No. 9.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 30, line 13, after ("house") insert (" or any other house ").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
LORD HUGHES moved Amendment No. 10:
Page 30, line 31, at end insert ("in relation to any house affected by any of the following events, that is to say ")
§ The noble Lord said: This is a drafting Amendment intended to make clear the circumstances in which a control of Occupation Order ceases to have effect. I should perhaps read the text. As drafted, the subsection merely lists five cases in which the Order ceases to operate. The Amendment recognises that there are some cases in which the 493 Order ceases to apply to individual houses and others in which it ceases to apply to all the houses in respect of which it was originally made. As the Bill stands, if the local authority, at the final resolution stage, decide that one house should be improved rather than demolished, that decision would lead to the lifting of the Control of Occupation Order from all the houses which it covered. The Amendments ensure that in those circumstances the Order would be lifted only from the house affected by the local authority's decision. I beg to move.
§ LORD STRATHCLYDECould we have the Amendment read to us, because on the paper I have the writing know what it is all about.
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEESI apologise to the noble Lord. I will read out the Amendment again. Amendment proposed—
Page 30, line 31, at end insert ("in relation to any house affected by any of the following events, that is to say").
§ LORD STRATHCLYDEI thank the Lord Chairman.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 35, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 36 [Obligations of local authorities in relation to rehousing in housing action areas.]:
§
LORD HUGHES moved Amendment No. 11:
Page 31, line 9, leave out (" a local ") and insert (" and where a local authority are under a duty by virtue of section 36 of the Land Compensation (Scotland) Act 1973 to rehouse him, the ")
§ The noble Lord said: This is a drafting Amendment to tidy up the clause which was introduced at Report stage in another place in response to discussions in Standing Committee. I beg to move.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 36, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 37 [Application to sheriff for possession where house is identified in accordance with section 20(1) as read with section 18(4)(a).]
494§ 4.26 p.m.
§
LORD HUGHES moved Amendment No. 12:
Page 31, line 32, leave out ("two") and insert (" four ").
§ The noble Lord said: Amendments Nos. 12, 13 and 14 all serve the same purpose. These Amendments give a longer period of notice to tenants who have to vacate their houses either permanently or temporarily as a result of an Order granted by the sheriff under the provisions of Part III of the Bill. Amendment No. 12 substitutes for the minimum period of two weeks the minimum period of four weeks. The next Amendment increases the period to not more than six weeks instead of not more than four weeks. I beg to move.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD HUGHESI beg to move Amendment No. 13.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 31, line 33, leave out ("four") and insert (" six ").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 37, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 38 agreed to.
§ Clause 39 [Application to sherifj for possession where house is identified in accordance with section 20(1) as read with section 18(4)(b)]:
§ LORD HUGHESAmendment No. 14 is a drafting Amendment. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 33, line 11, leave out ("two") and insert (" four ").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 39, as amended, agreed to.
§ Remaining clauses agreed to.
§ Schedule 1 agreed to.
§ Schedule 2 [Consequences of breach of conditions under s. 9.):
§ LORD HUGHESAmendments Nos. 15 and 16 are drafting Amendments intended to make clear exactly how much of the grant a local authority recovers when conditions are breached. The first Amendment, No. 15, provides that if the grant was originally paid in instalments, the interest which the local authority recovers, in addition to the grant, is calculated from 495 the date on which the final instalment is paid. The second Amendment, No. 16, provides that where the local authority choose to recover the "appropriate amount" it should also recover interest on that amount calculated from the date of payment of the grant or of the final instalment of the grant, as the case may be. I beg to move Amendment No. 15.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 41, line 9, leave out (" the sum ") and insert (" the grant, or where the grant was paid in instalments, from the date of the final settlement of the balance ").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD HUGHESI beg to move Amendment No. 16.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 41, line 28, after ("outstanding") insert (", together with interest thereon for the period from the date of payment of the grant or, where the grant was paid in instalments from the date of payment of the final settlement by the authority to the date of repayment of the appropriate amount to the authority ").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Schedule 2, as amended, agreed to.
§ Schedule 3 [Minor and consequential amendments]:
§ 4.29 p.m.
§ LORD HUGHESAmendments Nos. 17 and 18 are consequential on Amendments introduced at Report stage in another place to stiffen penalties for offences under Clause 35. I beg to move Amendment No. 17.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 43, leave out lines 25 and 26 and insert:
(" 6. In section 21, for the words from ("to a fine ") to the end of the section there shall be substituted "—
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD HUGHESI beg to move Amendment No. 18.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 44, leave out lines 1 and 2 and insert:
(" 12. In section 181(4), for the words from (" to a fine ") to the end of the subsection there shall be substituted "—
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD HUGHES: I spoke to this Amendment on Amendment No. 3. I beg to move Amendment No. 19.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 47, line 26, at end add—
(" (e) in subsection (8), at the end there shall be added:
' and "housing association" means a registered housing association within the meaning of the Housing Act 1974 '.").—(Lord Hughes.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Schedule 3, as amended, agreed to.
§ Remaining Schedules agreed to.
§ House resumed: Bill reported with Amendments.