HL Deb 02 July 1974 vol 353 cc149-52
LORD JANNER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the continuing escalation of terrorism and of threats made by Arab terrorists resulting in prisoners convicted of crimes of violence being released in consequence of those threats, they will take steps to get representatives of the affected nations together with the object of taking concerted action to deal with this serious problem.

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS)

My Lords, recent experience at the United Nations and in the International Civil Aviation Organisation has shown that the international community is not yet prepared to take the firm collective action necessary for the effective combatting of inter- national terrorism. Her Majesty's Government will continue to do all they can to stimulate joint practical countermeasures; the calling of an international meeting at the moment would, regrettably, seem unlikely to lead to fruitful action.

LORD JANNER

My Lords, in view of the lowest depths of depravity to which the arch-criminals have now resorted by stating that they are planning to kill children, schoolchildren, and they have already exercised that particular and terrible threat by killing 22 children in a school at Maalot is it not important that we should take up this matter with those civilised peoples—I and everybody in your Lordships' House realise the difficulty at the United Nations—who are affected, so that they may get together and deaf with the position? May I ask my noble friend one other question: in view of the fact that A1 Fatah has associated itself with the latest attack on women and children at Nahariya is it not possible for us to close their offices here so depriving them of the opportunity of throwing out smokescreens, and also to consider closing the offices of the Palestine Liberation Organisation, who are involved in all these matters?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, apart from doing everything that we can at international conferences to speed up and improve counter-measures against terrorism of every kind from whatever quarter it emanates, we also seek every possible bilateral opportunity of making our views very firmly known. I can assure my noble friend that we have done this in regard to the cases and details that he has mentioned. As to the position of Al Fatah and its office, this is a matter that my Department and others would need to consider very carefully in the light of what my noble friend has just said.

LORD GRIDLEY

My Lords, in this serious matter affecting human lives is not the best deterrent to this form of terrorism the securing of reliable information prior to an offence taking place? Are Her Majesty's Government satisfied that they can and do obtain such information?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, of course one could not give a perfectionist answer to such a question, but I appreciate what the noble Lord has in mind. We feel that we have very substantial access to the information of which he speaks. I would not wish to go into detail, and I would not wish to overstate the assurance, but I think that in so far as these matters can be dealt with they are being dealt with at least as efficiently by this country as by any other.

LORD JANNER

My Lords, may I put this further question to my noble friend: Is it not possible to do something to bring pressure on those countries that harbour those who, having been convicted of crimes, have been released from prison? It is not possible for us to do something about those organisations in this country that are deliberately helping them?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, my noble friend refers to the possibility of exerting pressure, as he calls it, on those countries that harbour these miscreants. The United Kingdom delegation to the Extraordinary Assembly of the International Civil Aviation Organisation held in Rome last August, in fact very strongly pressed for measures of this kind, regrettably without success because those taking part were not unanimously in favour of such action. For such action to be effective it must substantially result from a consensus of view of all those taking part in such a conference.

THE EARL OF ONSLOW

My Lords, first, would the noble Lord agree that the Palestine terrorists are the descendants of Irgun Zvai Leumi, the Stern gang and Haganah? Secondly, would he agree that the most important and correct way of getting rid of this very unattractive problem is for there to be more sensitivity on the part of the Government of Israel towards the Palestinian problem?

LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS

My Lords, I would hesitate to agree to any apportionment of blame in a situation which continues to be extremely sensitive, but is not unhopeful in relation to the initiatives taken so successfully by Dr. Kissinger in the Middle East. We would be better advised to address ourselves to the possibility of adding to the disengagement agreements broader agreements resting on Resolutions 242 and 238, to both of which both sides in this unhappy situation have expressed agreement.