§ 3.46 p.m.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, with the leave of the House I should like to repeat a Statement about the Middle East which is being made in another place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. The Statement is as follows:
"Despite the cease-fire agreement, the Egyptian and Israeli armies have remained in close contact and precariously interlocked. This dangerous situation has posed a grave threat to the cease-fire and has made it impossible for the peace negotiations at Geneva to proceed to the issues involved in a permanent settlement. Honourable Members will therefore have learned with great satisfaction 1210 that agreement has now been reached between the Egyptian and Israeli Governments through the good offices of the United States upon the disengagement of the opposing armies and their separation by a substantial zone to the East of the Suez Canal in which the troops of the United Nations Emergency Force will take up their positions. A copy of this agreement has been placed in the Library of the House. The House will applaud the tireless work which Dr. Kissinger has put into the achievement of this major step towards peace. For that is what it is. I was glad to have the opportunity to discuss all these matters with Dr. Kissinger early this morning.
"The present situation provides an opportunity to establish a permanent settlement of the dispute between Israel and the Arabs. It is an opportunity that must not be missed. Above all, it is essential that the disengagement of the Egyptian and Israeli armies, which we welcome with such relief, should be seen not as an end in itself but as a promising starting point which makes it possible to press ahead with negotiations towards a full and permanent peace settlement. Her Majesty's Government remain ready to help through the Security Council or in any other appropriate way.
"I should add that this latest development obviously has a bearing on the question of the supply of military equipment to the parties to the conflict, about which honourable Members expressed much concern during the period of the fighting. While the disengagement agreement is far from being a guarantee of lasting peace it will certainly reduce drastically the dangers of military confrontation, and the Government have decided accordingly that we need no longer continue to suspend delivery of the military supplies to the battlefield countries which we held up when the fighting broke out on the 6th October. We will of course continue to scrutinise any future requests with the same care and against the same criteria as we have consistently applied in the past.
"I hope that all concerned will now use this hard-won agreement as a foundation on which to build the durable peace that has for so long 1211 been denied to the peoples and countries of the Middle East."
My Lords, that is the end of the Statement.
§ 3.48 p.m.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, the House will be grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Tweedsmuir, for having repeated this Statement. The Government were heavily criticised at the outset of the war in the Middle East for ceasing to supply arms to Israel and other countries in the Middle East because they felt that this would provide them with a position from which to mediate. Therefore, the noble Baroness might perhaps find it slightly ironic that the United States, who remained four-square with Israel, should, through their Secretary of State, play such a vital, if not the supreme role in bringing Israel and the Arab States together for the very first time at the conference table. We on this side of the House applaud and express tremendous admiration to Dr. Kissinger for all he has done in bringing Israel and Egypt together. Naturally, the Statement says nothing about the negotiations now going on between Israel and Syria. We understand why, but we hope that the noble Baroness will keep the House informed, because clearly there has to be agreement between Israel and Egypt and the other Arab countries if a firm peace is to be established in the Middle East.
My Lords, arms supply is a matter to which I think most of us would like to give consideration. It is one thing to criticise during the heat of the battle; but, of course, it is another matter when one is commencing the supply of all weapons to all sides at a critical moment of negotiation for peace. Can the noble Baroness say whether the arms that the Government have in mind are those that were in the pipeline, those that had been ordered and held back; or do the Government look for new orders for equipment both from Israel and from the Arab States? May I ask the noble Baroness whether Her Majesty's Government would not now consider this to be the moment to explore with the United States, France and the Soviet Union, the possibility of some international control of arms to this area, so that we can avoid an arms race and the building up of pressures and ten- 1212 sions which could create another war, with all the good work that has clearly been done being lost? I think I will leave this to see how events proceed. The Government know that we on this side of the House have great admiration for Dr. Kissinger; we recognise that the work has yet to be completed, but we have supreme confidence in his ability and in that of Mrs. Meir, President Sadat and President Assad of Syria.
§ 3.50 p.m.
§ LORD GLADWYNMy Lords, I am sure that every Member of the House would wish to be associated with the congratulations to Dr. Kissinger on his really great achievement, one which gives grounds for hoping that there may in the near future be a permanent settlement of the Arab-Israeli dispute—something that has defeated the efforts of all other statesmen for the last quarter of a century.
I would, generally speaking, like to associate myself with what the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, said about arms supplies. Is it really desirable at this still delicate and indeed dangerous moment to resume the supplies of arms? Are the Government quite sure that that is the right thing to do? In addition to what the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, said, may I add that I hope that this is not connected with some independent deal over arms with any other Middle Eastern country concerned, notably perhaps, if rumours are true. Saudi Arabia. Perhaps the noble Baroness would confirm that that is not the case?
§ 3.51 p.m.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, I would thank the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, and the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, for their tributes to Dr. Kissinger, who seems, apart from anything else, to have the most remarkable stamina. As the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, rightly inferred, I am not yet in a position to speak of the progress of negotiations with Syria, but certainly I will keep the House informed.
On the question of arms supplies, to which both noble Lords referred, first of all there are those which the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, referred to as in the pipeline. These are contracts which were unfulfilled and about which we 1213 were, as he rightly says, much criticised for not fulfilling at the time. If any new orders are made, we will not supply any weapons which in our view are likely to increase the chances of resumption of hostility or—and this is very important—to impede the search for a peaceful settlement of the dispute. With regard to the question of whether there should be some kind of international agreement on the supply of arms to the Middle East, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, that this would be admirable if it could be secured. My right honourable friend mentioned such a question to Mr. Gromyko on December 3, but this was not pursued.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, may I say at once that I am very grateful for the Statement which has been made this afternoon, and I too would like in a humble way to offer my congratulations to Dr. Kissinger for the remarkable achievement that he has obtained so far. I hope that the agreement will be carried out in the spirit that he has tried to instil into the parties concerned, and I think one can go forward with the hope of an ultimate settlement, although not a very immediate one.
There are one or two points I should like to put to the noble Baroness. First of all, on the Syrian question (we now have diplomatic relations with Syria), there is one question which is disturbing everybody who has any knowledge of the situation at all and that is the question of prisoners of war taken by the Syrians. In spite of the Geneva Convention, the Syrians have not given a list of the Israeli men, and possibly women, who have been taken by them. It is a matter of very grave anguish to the parents and relatives of these people. I hope that we shall do something in the direction of persuading them to realise their obligation in respect of the international agreement.
There is one other question I should like to ask, and that is with regard to a rumour to the effect that the Libyan Prime Minister has been invited to come to this country. Does the noble Baroness really think, or do the Government think, that people who are probably the chief factor in creating and sustaining terrorism and blackmail and similar acts should be invited to come here at all, and particularly at a time when these delicate negotiations are going on in respect of a 1214 settlement? I hope that if such an invitation has been extended it will be withdrawn.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, I well understand the noble Lord's concern about Israeli prisoners of war. As I understand it, so far no list has been supplied by Syria. We would hope that, now that the Suez disengagement agreement has been settled, we shall be able to turn to other matters, and we hope that Syria will be able to find it possible to attend the next Session of the negotiating conference. I quite understand the great concern on this matter.
So far as an invitation to the Libyan Prime Minister to come to the United Kingdom is concerned, I have myself no knowledge of such an invitation. Lastly, I would say that I am sure that Dr. Kissinger, if he reads our Hansard, will note the tributes to him with gratitude.
§ BARONESS GAITSKELLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness this question? While I have great reservations whenever I hear of sales of arms to any country in the world, will we be as evenhanded in the sale of arms now that peace is drawing near as the Government said they were when there was no peace at all?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, we were certainly very even-handed in the withdrawal of supplies to the Middle East. It depends, of course, very much on what country wants the United Kingdom to supply what materials. As I said very carefully in answer to an earlier question, we shall consider every application on its merits and with very great care.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that, although we are all grateful to her for repeating the Statement made in another place, so far as I am concerned there is no gratitude to Her Majesty's Government. They have played no part in bringing the parties together in order to seek the possibility of peace. That has been left almost exclusively to the United States, probably with some pressure exercised by the Soviet Union. Her Majesty's Government have played no part in it whatsoever. They do not deserve any gratitude. That is the first point.
1215 The second point is this. Is the noble Baroness aware that there appeared to be undue haste some time ago in imposing a ban on the provision of spare parts for Centurion tanks to the State of Israel, and that now there is almost undue and surprising haste to remove the ban? Is the noble Baroness aware that to supply these spare parts to Israel is really a military nonsense now?—it does not help them in the least. It might have helped them at the time, but not now. The Government propose to supply arms, according to what the noble Baroness has said to your Lordships' House, only if they make no impact on a resumption of the conflict. To whom are the arms to be supplied? Can she be a little more specific? Because unless Her Majesty's Government are specific as to who are to be the recipients of these arms, and what is to be the nature of them, many of us will be very dissatisfied and will return to this subject over and over again.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, I must confess that I was not aware that there was any gratitude expressed to Her Majesty's Government, but much was expressed to Dr. Kissinger. I think it fair to point out that our contribution of arms to all those involved in the hostilities was of a very minor nature compared to those supplied by the United States and also by the Soviet Union. We have had quite a considerable opportunity to put forward ideas on the methods by which a peace agreement could be reached, and I think that perhaps my right honourable friend's long experience in this matter with Resolution 242 has been of help on this, too.
The noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, does not seem to be able to be satisfied about anything. First of all, he says that there was undue haste in stopping arms supplies to the Middle East, and now he says that there is undue haste in re-starting them. He must decide which he wants. I can only say to him that the countries to which the embargo applied were Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Libya. As for the future, it depends entirely on what requests for new arms are made. As I said earlier, we intend to fulfil the existing contracts, which we also had a right to stop. There is a right to stop or modify any licence.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, I join those who feel a little baffled by this Statement. The first part of the Statement gave us a great deal of pleasure. At long last it appeared that peace was going to be established in the Middle East. Then, to my astonishment, in the same Statement we are told that the Government propose to provide arms to both sides. Could the noble Baroness tell me what is the motive of a Government that makes a Statement of a peaceful kind and then, in the same Statement, tells us that they are going—this is my opinion—to encourage the two sides who have been fighting each other to once more indulge in war? After all, arms are only sold to nations for that purpose. Why has it been done at this stage?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, the noble Baroness will no doubt recall that a great deal of unease was expressed in this House about the imposition of the arms embargo on the Middle East. It was felt that contracts that had been entered into should be fulfilled. We imposed the embargo when hostilities broke out because, as we said at the time, we thought it was the best means whereby we could perhaps play some part in calling for peace. Although this is not a permanent peace at present, there is no doubt that by this disengagement the two sides have made a very important advance towards peace. This has defused what was at the time of the imposition of the embargo a very dangerous situation. We think, therefore, that now is the time, if ever, to go on fulfilling the contracts about which this House was so disturbed.
§ LORD CACCIAMy Lords, the question of Syria has been raised, but may I also ask the noble Baroness, Lady Tweedsmuir, whether she will keep us as informed as she can about Jordan, which Dr. Kissinger also visited. I mention this in particular because at some stage—and I know that these are early days—the question of the Christian Holy Places in Jerusalem may arise, and it has already been reported that President Sadat is going to see the Pope. Some of these Christian places or institutions, such as the Cathedral of St. George and the Hostel, and St. John's Hospital, depend very largely on the support of Her Majesty's Government. May I ask that 1217 that fact be borne in mind, and that, by means which they will know best, and which may not always be in public, these will be not forgotten but supported?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, I can assure the House that when there is information to give on the situation in Jordan, or the situation of the Holy Places, it will certainly be given to this House.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, could the noble Baroness say—we have paid great tribute to Dr. Kissinger—whether, prior to making the decision to resume supplying arms, Her Majesty's Government consulted with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of State gave his agreement to it?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIENo, my Lords; to my knowledge it was a decision taken by Her Majesty's Government, but I should like finally to confirm that.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, this is extremely important. If Her Majesty's Government did not consult with the Secretary of State at this very crucial period, I cannot imagine anything more stupid and likely to place peace at risk than such a decision.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, I think that the noble Lord exaggerates in saying that our fulfilling of the contracts would place peace at risk; because, so far as I understand it, both Israel and Egypt are fully rearmed and have both agreed to a disengagement procedure. They have also said in their agreement that it is not regarded by Egypt and Israel as a final peace agreement, but that it constitutes a first step towards a final, just and durable peace. The conversations which my right honourable friend has had with Dr. Kissinger are of course confidential, and I should not like to say absolutely either. "Yes" or "No" to whether the subject was raised.
§ LORD GLADWYNMy Lords, since, as we understand it, Her Majesty's Government are endeavouring, with their eight colleagues in the European Community, to harmonise the Nine's foreign policies, can we take it that they at least consulted with their eight colleagues in 1218 the Community before taking this decisions?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, the Community of course have a common policy in so far as they issued the Statement which supported Resolution 242. So far as the issue of arms from this country to the Middle East is concerned, that is a decision by Her Majesty's Government of the United Kingdom.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness one question arising from the reply that she has given? Is she really considering supplying arms to Libya at the present time? I thought that the noble Baroness mentioned Libya. Surely we are not going to assist the enemies of the civilised world. They are the arch enemy of civilisation at present. They are a main part of the "Big Brother" that has appeared all of a sudden giving supplies to terrorists throughout the world, including those who are using arms against our own country. In those circumstances, are we really justified in supplying further arms to Libya?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, although the embargo is lifted, as I said at the beginning, if there were requests from Libya they would have to be studied with the greatest care. In any case we should certainly not supply anything that could conceivably be of use to terrorists. I can assure the noble Lord of that.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, I am sorry to harry the noble Baroness. That is the last thing I should wish to do. But at this time in the world, when we are all pleading for peace and for disarmament, I am shocked at this Statement. I should like to know where the pressure has come from for this remarkable decision of the Government to supply arms to these warring peoples.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, I should have thought one of the greatest pressures we had to resist was the pressure of this House and also of another place. In your Lordships' House it was made absolutely clear to Her Majesty's Government that many noble Lords in all parts of the House felt that existing contracts 1219 should be fulfilled. I explained at that time that all licences have written into them a provision whereby part or all of the licence can be cancelled, but that we would lift the embargo at a suitable time when the actual fighting had come to an end. I am very happy to say that this is really what this Statement is about, that we can say that the fighting has so far come to an end.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, we have been on this subject for some 26 minutes and I know that there is another Statement to be made, but I must say to the noble Baroness that the latter part of our questioning has raised a matter of serious disquiet. I hope that the noble Baroness will write to me. If it is the fact that the Government did not consult Dr. Kissinger, I shall have to see whether we should raise an urgent debate on this matter.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEMy Lords, I note what the noble Lord has said and I will confirm to him what I said: but I hope that the House will realise that the point of this Statement is, firstly, that we have come at last to the first stage of the ending of hostilities, and secondly, have done something which the House very much wanted to happen; namely, restored the contracts.