§ 2.40 p.m.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the present position with regard to the steps they have taken and are taking to deal with the hijacking of aeroplanes, and whether they will join with other civilised nations in refusing air facilities to those nations who harbour the hijackers.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)My Lords, aviation security measures in the United Kingdom are under constant study in consultation with 829 the National Aviation Security Committee. Following insufficient support for Her Majesty's Government's proposals at the International Civil Aviation Organisation Assembly in Rome in August, we are considering whether further international initiatives can be taken to protect the international community from the menace of hijacking.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, is not the noble Baroness aware of the fact that this is becoming an extremely serious matter? Those who hijacked the plane in Rome are at present being harboured. Is not this part and parcel of the role that those nations harbouring these people are now taking as "Big Brother", when they use every device they can possibly use as accessories both before and after these crimes of terrorism? Is it not time that the civilised nations got together to stop this kind of thing?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, that was exactly what Her Majesty's Government were trying to do in Rome. The British delegation co-sponsored a proposal that access to air space should be denied to the aircraft of States which failed to deal with hijackers. This was supported by less than half the States present.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, the policy of Her Majesty's Government at Rome was a policy which I think all in this House would accept. Can the noble Baroness now say whether she has succeeded in getting the nine members of the European Economic Community to agree with the policy that Her Majesty's Government put forward in Rome?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, not yet. Some members feel that sanctions of this nature should be imposed only by the United Nations. We are considering whether we can get agreement with our European partners on the standardisation of security arrangements at airports, which we think is of prime importance.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, the security arrangements at airports are a completely different matter. We are now talking about something else. Can the noble Baroness say what in fact has been done by Her Majesty's Government to try to persuade the other Governments 830 of the European Economic Community to support us at the next International Conference?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, a great deal has been done through ordinary diplomatic channels and at Rome. As I said earlier, some States consider that the United Nations ought to be the only organisation which has responsibility for sanctions.
§ LORD HARVEY OF PRESTBURYMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that some of us feel that the British Government have given a lead in every conceivable direction in dealing with this difficult problem? Will my noble friend give an assurance that there will be no let-up in inspection and surveillance at British airports?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I thank my noble friend. I believe that the United Kingdom has given a lead on these matters in the international field, and we are certainly doing everything we can so far as security at United Kingdom airports is concerned.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say which countries in the E.E.C. failed to follow our line and did not give us support?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, if we take the Hague and Montreal Conventions which the United Kingdom has ratified, Ireland, for example, has neither signed nor ratified either. There are various other countries which I could mention, but it would probably take too long to list them to the House.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, my supplementary question was about countries within the E.E.C.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, what we were striving to do was to put the Hague and Montreal Conventions inside the Chicago Convention. If the noble Lord is asking specifically about the E.E.C., I have already mentioned Ireland. Then there is France, which has signed and ratified the Hague Convention but not the Montreal Convention; Belgium, which has signed and ratified the Hague Convention but not the Montreal Convention; and 831 Luxembourg and Italy, which have not ratified either the Hague or the Montreal Conventions.
LORD JANNERMy Lords, in view of the gravity of the situation, which is part and parcel of the fact that some nations are wanting to act as "Big Brother", is it not extremely important, with time running against us, that a special conference should be called to deal with terrorism, with blackmail and with all the other measures that are being used?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord that this is a matter of extreme importance. That is why this conference was brought together in Rome. But it was unable to reach agreement. We therefore consider that until wide international agreement is obtained, the best course is to have the maximum possible security at airports.
§ LORD ORR-EWINGMy Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that there are approximately 130 members of the United Nations, less than half of them having an airline under their control? So is it not much more suitable to proceed either through the E.E.C. or through ICAO, and not wait for a massive and amorphous body like the United Nations to make up its mind?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I agree with my noble friend, But the United Kingdom is not waiting for the United Nations, since we have taken a lead in this matter.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, will the Minister consider putting in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list of those countries which have not ratified?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEYes, my Lords; I will consider that.