§ 3.8 p.m.
§ LORD SWAYTHLINGMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will issue a directive to ensure that if the Post Office, in order to save fuel, reduces collections from pillar boxes to one a day, that one shall be in the afternoon, or at any rate not in the early morning.
§ LORD DENHAMNo, my Lords. I am informed that as in rural areas Post Office delivery and collection services are normally combined, to deliver in the morning and collect only later in the day would be no saving. The Post Office feel that to postpone deliveries to the aftrnoon would delay the mail still further.
§ LORD SWAYTHLINGMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. Is he aware that in many country districts the pillar boxes are cleared at 901 7.15 in the morning and deliveries are made at 8 o'clock so that if an answer to a letter is needed urgently and if the answer is put into the letter box, it will not leave the box until the next day? Is he aware that printed notices put on letter boxes state that this is done to economise in fuel, when, as it seems to me, the only economy is made by the Post Office? Would not the noble Lord agree that many people have to use their cars to go to the post office if they have an urgent letter to post, and that in that way more petrol is used?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, the Post Office examined all the possible options for making a saving in fuel. The rural service uses up to 40 per cent. of all the petrol used by the postal service whereas the rural traffic is only 10 per cent. of the total. Therefore it seemed to the Post Office that this would be the easiest way to make a saving with the least disruption for people. As regards Lord Swaythling's second supplementary question about people driving into town to post letters, I am sure that everyone is aware of the need to save petrol and will bear this in mind when deciding whether their mail is of sufficient importance to warrant such a journey.
§ BARONESS STOCKSMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in my postal district there are four collections a day, apart from the morning delivery and evening collection? Is he aware that whenever a collection occurs a large van manned by two men is used to collect the letters and then goes off to the neighbouring post boxes? Would not Her Majesty's Government admit that the Civil Service did it better?
§ LORD DENHAMNo, my Lords, I would not admit anything of the kind. This is a matter for the Post Office; but I am sure that the Post Office will take note of the noble Baroness's comments.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that while the discontinuance of the second delivery would be accepted in the rural areas as a reasonable economy, it is the loss of the second collection which makes a serious inroad into the general convenience of country dwellers? If there is to be a single collection in the rural areas is 902 it not possible for it to be later in the day, as the noble Lord, Lord Swaythling, suggests, possibly at mid-day, rather than first thing in the morning?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, the difficulty, as I said in my original Answer, is that delivery and collection are done together with the same van. The only way it would be possible to have the collection later in the day would be to deliver later as well, and the Post Office think that would be more, and not less, inconvenient to the general public.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend to address his mind slightly more closely to this matter? Is he aware that in the rural areas the postal delivery takes some time and is not completed until between half past nine and ten o'clock in the morning? Is it not possible for the collection from the boxes to take place after the delivery has been completed—perhaps between ten o'clock and eleven o'clock—by the same van?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, I am sure that the Post Office always keep in close touch with public opinion in these matters, and I am confident that they will read my noble friend's remarks with great interest.
§ LORD HALEMy Lords, am I expected to reply to a letter before I have received it? If it comes by the first post I have to take 24 hours to reply to it.
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, that will give the noble Lord, Lord Hale, plenty of time for thought before putting his words on paper.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, is the noble Lord, Lord Denham, aware that some of us who have lived for much of our lives in country districts, whichever Government is in office, still appreciate the fact that the village post office delivers to country areas in wind, rain, thunder and storm? With the millions of letters that are delivered, too many people "bind" and "gut" about the few that go astray.
§ LORD DENHAMYes, my Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek, and I think it is a point that might well be remembered.
§ LORD NAPIER AND ETTRICKMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that if an urgent reply is needed, there is always the telephone or telegraph service available?
§ LORD DENHAMYes, my Lords.
§ LORD DOUGLASS OF CLEVELANDMy Lords, is the Minister's answer in response to public opinion on that subject in accord with his general attitude with respect to public opinion?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, yes; I think the Post Office do take particular notice of public opinion on these matters, and public opinion is very often well observed in your Lordships House and in another place.
§ LORD DOUGLASS OF CLEVELANDMy Lords, may I ask as a supplementary question, is that the reason why we are having an Election?
§ LORD PLATTMy Lords, are Her Majesty's Government aware that in the outskirts of London, where I live, the first delivery has been so delayed that the second delivery has often arrived before the first, and that this can be most confusing?