§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government which are the non-nuclear nations, not associated with Eurogroup, who have been so far involved in planning for the possible defensive use of nuclear weapons; which nations have been consulted; and with what result.
THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (EARL FERRERS)My Lords, nuclear planning in the North Atlantic Alliance is carried out under the ægis of the NATO Nuclear Planning Group. The only non-nuclear nations which are members of the Nuclear Planning Group but which are not members of the Eurogroup are Canada and Portugal. Planning and consultation take place within the Nuclear Planning Group both at official level and at the biannual Ministerial meetings when policy plans, programmes and procedures for the possible use of nuclear weapons are established and reviewed.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Nuclear Planning Group consists of eight members—and, by the way, despite what the noble Earl said, includes Canada. How does he account for the statement made in November of last year by the Nuclear Planning Group that they proposed to involve the non-nuclear nations in their consultative procedures, when in point of fact there are six members of the Nuclear Planning Group that are non-nuclear nations?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I think that the noble Lord said that there were eight members of the Nuclear Planning Group. In fact, there are twelve members, and Canada is one of them. Of course the role of the Nuclear Planning Group is to submit policy recommendations on the nuclear affairs of the Alliance to the North Atlantic Council and to examine specific aspects of the planning procedures for the possible use of nuclear weapons. This is, of course, the purpose of the Group, and that is what they do.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I am sorry that the noble Earl has given that answer. Apparently he has not done his homework. I have in my possession the summary of current affairs, and I find that the members of the Nuclear Planning Group are Britain, Canada, the Federal Republic of Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, and the United States. There are not twelve members but eight members of the Group. What I want to know is why the Nuclear Planning Group associated with the Euro-group have decided to consult the non-nuclear members of the Group. It is not my submission; it comes right from the Government, that they have decided to consult members of the Group who are non-nuclear.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I think that somewhere we must be at cross-purposes. I should be grateful if the noble Lord would let me have that piece of paper afterwards, and I will certainly study it. At the moment I am not cognisant of the particular point to which he refers. I can assure the noble Lord that the members of the Nuclear Planning Group are Belgium, Canada, Denmark, the Federal Republic of Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom and the United States. I would assure the noble Lord that the duty of the Nuclear Planning Group, and its objectives, are totally different from the Eurogroup, because the Nuclear Planning Group deals with nuclear matters and the Eurogroup deals with trying to effect more harmony within NATO of the European countries.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, in view of that statement, may I quote from the Government's supplement?
§ LORD SHINWELLWhy not? Is it not better to be accurate about this matter?
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD ABERDARE)My Lords, if the noble Lord would put it in the form of a question he would be in order.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, it is perfectly in order to quote in support of a question in your Lordships' House provided the quotation is not too long.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, in this summary does it not appear as follows:
The Defence Ministers of the eight NATO members who make up the Nuclear Planning Group"—That is marked "1", and at the bottom is the footnote:1. Britain, Canada, the Federal Republic of Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, and the United States.It is not twelve members. Would the noble Earl be kind enough to look into this matter again and furnish an accurate reply to my Question?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I like to think that the reply that I furnished was accurate, but I shall certainly look into the noble Lord's point and get in touch with him. If in any way I have given inaccurate information, I will certainly let him know.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, how is it that Portugal is associated with this Group? Is it not the only nation, other than Canada, which my noble friend corrected, which is associated in this way? Is it not a semi-Fascist country, and almost the only Government now openly colonialist?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I would prefer not to answer the latter part of the noble Lord's supplementary question. With regard to the prime part of his question, in fact the Nuclear Planning Group consists of virtually all the countries, other than Iceland, France and Luxembourg.