GRENADA (Hansard, 4 February 1974)

§ LORD GREENWOOD OF ROSSENDALE
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question of which I have given Her Majesty's Government Private Notice, namely—

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, we have had no reports of violence in Grenada over the past week, nor have we had any reports of any threats to the safety of United Kingdom and other Commonwealth citizens.

§ LORD GREENWOOD OF ROSSENDALE
My Lords, while overcoming my astonishment, may I ask the noble Earl whether he is aware that his Answer will be very saddening to many Members of your Lordships' House? Are the Government really oblivious to the fact that anxiety has been expressed by United Kingdom citizens, by the people of Grenada and by the Governments of other Commonwealth countries? Is the noble Earl aware that according to the newspapers, which I am sure he believes to be in general reliable, there has been a breakdown of legitimate law and order in Grenada and that the secret police are behaving quite outrageously? Is it not a fact that Grenada is on the verge of bankruptcy, from which she is being saved only by the gift of £100,000 from the British Government? Further, is the Minister not aware that the team of Churchmen led by the Archibishop of Trinidad and Tobago left Grenada in what they described as "a mood of deep pessimism" about the future of the Island?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I am aware of some of the divergences of opinion to which the noble Lord, Lord Greenwood, has referred, and I am also aware of some of the reports which are in the newspapers; but I would assure the noble Lord that the Deputy British Government representative who is normally in St. Vincent has for the past two weeks been reporting on the spot in Grenada. During that time he has reported twice a day that there have been no outbreaks of violence. Of course we are aware of the problems concerned, and we shall certainly take account of anything that may happen which may affect the lives of any British or Commonwealth citizens. But, as I said in my original reply, at the moment these people are not threatened.

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, while endorsing the surprise at the reply which has been given, may I ask the Minister whether the fact that the visit of Prince Richard for the opening celebrations has been cancelled does not show that there is a very exceptional situation in Grenada? Is it not the case that if the noble Earl had referred to ten days ago, instead of a week ago, he would have had to report severe violence in which people were killed and injured? Is it not the case that 561 the Opposition, quite extraordinarily, represents the Chamber of Commerce, the trade unions and the Churches; and in view of this situation surely Her Majesty's Government should do something before Independence is granted next Thursday.

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, is entirely right in saying that Prince Richard's visit was cancelled some ten days ago, but in fact the British Government now consider the situation in Grenada sufficiently stable to allow the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Foreign Office to go to take part in the celebrations. Indeed, he has left to-day to do so. It is a fact that three people were killed in Grenada between January 20 and 26, but the internal defence of Grenada is not our responsibility. The Act allowing independence was passed by both Houses of Parliament, and it is correct that this should go forward.

§ LORD GREENWOOD OF ROSSENDALE
My Lords, will the Government accept that we genuinely wish the Under-Secretary of State well in this situation, although of course all of us sympathise with him in being regarded as expendable by his own colleagues? If the Government have no power to intervene in this situation, or have not the will to do so, will they at least give us an assurance that they will think very hard indeed before creating a situation in another dependent territory which means that a century and a half of friendship and mutual trust ends in what can only be described as a squalid shambles?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, if I may say so to the noble Lord, Lord Greenwood, with the greatest deference, I think those last few remarks unfortunate in the light of what is going to take place in three days time. On Thursday, that country will become independent, and we should wish them success. My honourable friend the Under-Secretary is not expendable—I can assure the noble Lord of that—and had it been thought that he might have been expended then he would not have gone. But the Government consider it appropriate and suitable that we should send a representative to take part in the celebrations, and we wish the Grenadans well in them.

§ LORD REIGATE
My Lords, while sharing some of the misgivings that have been expressed about the future of this 562 Island under the leadership of Mr. Gairy, whom I have known for 22 years, may I ask: is it not a fact that Mr. Gairy is still the Head of a democratically elected Government, much though one may deplore it? And since when have we taken part in upsetting democratic régimes in the Commonwealth?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend Lord Reigate. He is perfectly right. Mr. Gairy is the Head of the Government of that country; the request for independence was agreed through their Legislature and in both Houses of Parliament here, and that is the reason why we think it should go ahead and, as I have said, we wish them well in it.

§ LORD GREENWOOD OF ROSSENDALE
My Lords, simply for the sake of the Record may I ask the noble Earl whether he is aware that the democratic nature of the elections in Grenada has been open to question, and that one would have been more impressed by Mr. Gairy's devotion to democracy if he had had the guts to face a referendum in Grenada?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I think that really is a slightly wider point, and I do not think it would be appropriate to comment upon it.

§ BARONESS WHITE
My Lords, with respect, the referendum is very much germane to this issue. It was within the power of the British Government not to accede to the request for independence without a referendum having been held. It was the act of the British Government, as I understand it, to consent to that situation. Some of us feel very strongly about this and the representations which we have had from Grenada. The noble Earl may have heard of someone called Pontius Pilate.

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I am bound to say that I did not know that he came from Grenada.

§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOE
But, my Lords, he washed his hands.

EARL FERRERS
The answer to the substance of Lady White's supplementary question is that Section 10(1) of the West Indies Act 1957 allows a referendum provided that there is a two-thirds majority 563 in the referendum and provided also that there is a two-thirds majority for Independence in the Legislature. Had that been the case, the British Government would have been obliged to grant independence. In fact, Grenada did not have a referendum, and it was under Section 10(2) of the Act that the request to Her Majesty's Government to give independence was granted.

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that noble Lords on this side of the House are just as concerned about the future of this Island and its prosperity under independence as are Her Majesty's Government, and it is because of that very concern that we are putting our questions? Is it not the case that Mr. Gairy, the Prime Minister of Grenada, has adopted authoritarian methods and has his own private police force, and that it is the Opposition there, who were his main supporters at the last election, who are disillusioned in his rule? Will the Government carefully consider even at this last moment, whether the Constitution should not be suspended, in view of conditions in Grenada, and the Order in Council for Independence postponed until a member of the Government has been able to go there and to report on the situation?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I am certainly well aware of the general concern over this position expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, and other people. It was expressed on the occasion when the Act was going through Parliament. Of course, there has been concern, but the decision was taken. The question of Independence was part of the election platform on which Mr. Gairy stood, and he received an overwhelming majority in Parliament, where there were only two Opposition Members. Even they were not against independence. This matter has been discussed in Grenada and in both Houses of Parliament here, and the decision was taken that Grenada should be given independence. Although we accept that there are some people who have expressed views to the contrary, I think it would be quite wrong for Her Majesty's Government at this juncture to say that Grenada should not be given independence.

§ BARONESS GAITSKELL
My Lords, would it not be true to say that the Government would be in just as much trouble if at this time they held up Independence? All my experience at the United Nations tells me that this would be so.

EARL FERRERS
I entirely agree with the noble Baroness. Although many people may complain about the grant of Independence, I think the holocuast of complaint that would arise if we decided against it would be even greater.

§ LORD GEORGE-BROWN
My Lords, may I add a word, or, rather, ask a question, in support of what the noble Baroness, Lady Gaitskell, has just said? There are many anti-Colonialists and anti-Imperialists on these Benches who feel that Independence is not something that we grant; it is something that people are entitled to have. They may learn to use it well, or they may learn to use it badly. But it is not part of the job of ex-Colonial Powers to decide who is good and who is bad in the Island; the islanders must find that out for themselves.

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord George-Brown, for what he has said. It is up to each country granted Independence to steer its own course, and we wish them well.