HL Deb 19 December 1974 vol 355 cc1271-3
Lord INGLEWOOD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what plans they have for ensuring that all traffic and, in particular, heavy commercial vehicles observe the speed limits on motorways.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, enforcement is a matter for chief officers of police who deploy their available resources in the way which they con-sider most effective for the discharge of this and other police functions.

Lord INGLEWOOD

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that is hardly an Answer to my Question? Is he not aware that on many motorways, notably the Ml in the neighbourhood of Birmingham, it is the rule rather than the exception for heavy vehicles to travel at well over 60 mph? Does the noble Lord not think that at this particular time, quite apart from the issue of road safety and bringing the law into disrepute, this means a great! waste of valuable fuel?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I understand the noble Lord's point, but it is debatable whether very heavy vehicles can do more than 60 mph. I can only come back to what I said to the noble Lord earlier, that there are motor patrols i on our motorways. It has been found that this is the most effective way of deal- ing with this kind of situation, but whatever controls one has one must bear in mind that the police are undermanned at the present moment and a number of these vehicles are bound to get through.

Lord INGLEWOOD

My Lords, while I appreciate what the noble Lord has said, may I invite him to travel at 60 mph on some of these roads and take note of the number of heavy vehicles which overtake him? They will not be few.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, as I have said, I understand. I have been on the motorways; indeed, I use them quite often. It might interest the noble Lord and other Members of your Lordships' House to know that in 1973 in England and Wales there were 11,860 prosecutions and 265 written warnings to drivers for exceeding the 70 mph speed limit. But having said all that, there is also abundant evidence that it is safer to drive on a motorway than on any other kind of road.

Lord DAVIES of LEEK

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that if we were to take a little more note of the quality of living and if we had a little more dignity in our life we would plan now to return as much as possible of this heavy traffic to the railways?

Lord BARNBY

My Lords, since the Minister has now given an indication of intention on the part of the authorities that there should be strict policing—and bearing in mind the experience last November when the effects were so derisory and there was a great deal of non-observance of the regulations—may I ask whether he can give any encouragement that, upon using the powers which he indicates the police have the intention of using, when convictions occur steps will be taken to ensure that they are given as wide publicity as possible? In that manner the most economical policing will be the deterrent influence arising from the examples which the police and the magistrates so ensure.

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, how best to make these penalties known is a matter which is constantly under consideration. I would remind the noble Lord that quite recently, in fact in the Road Traffic Act 1974, the penalties were doubled; but I still want to suggest that the most effective way is the presence of police motor patrols.

Lord HENLEY

My Lords, is there any reason why the policing should not be done by mobile traffic wardens rather than the police? Traffic wardens have been extraordinarily successful in towns when they were not mobile; why should they not be mobile in order to undertake this task and thus take the pressure off the police?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, I should like to pass on the suggestion made by the noble Lord. I am sure that it has, in fact, been considered.

Lord ROBERTHALL

My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that when these regulations come into force, as they did last time, there will be a great fund of good will but it will rapidly dissipate because so many people are obviously infringing the law? Would it not follow that the time to make an effort is immediately after the introduction, when there are many less infringements?

Lord WELLS-PESTELL

My Lords, this is a point of which the chiefs of police are aware. It is in the public interest—and they know it—to try to apprehend people who do not obey the law.