§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what the Civil Service is doing to encourage women who having left because of domestic responsibilities then wish to return to the Service.
§ Lord LOVELL-DAVISMy Lords, until now, civil servants who resigned could usually be reappointed only in the basic grade, regardless of any position achieved before resignation. It has now been agreed with the National Staff side that they may apply for reappointment in the grade reached at the time of resignation. This will help the Civil Service attract back able people and make proper use of their skills. It will be of particular help to women wanting to pick up the threads of the careers which they left to devote themselves full-time to running homes and caring for families.
§ Baroness STEDMANMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for his reply and hope it will have the result he anticipates.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, although I should like to emulate my noble friend, in view of the fact that the percentage of women in the executive and administrative grades of the Civil Service is very small, I must ask the Minister how the Government 1266 intend to overcome the prejudice which is ingrained in the Civil Service in this matter and which has inevitably led to this state of affairs?
§ Lord LOVELL-DAVISMy Lords, in order to avoid being unfairly classified as being a male chauvinist pig, perhaps I should address your Lordships' House as "My Lords and Ladies" or, better still, "My Ladies and Lords". I expected a question from the noble Baroness, Lady Summerskill. Some may think that she "doth protest too much". Methinks, on the contrary, that the cause of sexual equality owes a great deal to her protestations.
§ Baroness SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord very much.
§ Lord LOVELL-DAVISMy Lords, I wish, as many people must, that there were more women in top Civil Service jobs. No one can relish the present position in which the junior grades arc pre-dominently staffed by women and the senior grades by men. The real problem is that many women have to resign to have children, and this either curtails or interrupts their career. The recruitment arrangements are structured in as impartial a fashion as can be designed, but it would be wrong to apply double standards. We do, however, need to be on guard against unconscious discrimination, the tacit assumption that women should be sent to women's jobs. A large number of posts, which had been restricted to men only, have now been opened to women as well. It might surprise noble Lords to know that there are now women immigration officers, women meteorological officers, and even women in the Tower of London as warders of the Jewel House. In fact, the procession of my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor could even at some time in the future be enlivened by the addition of a female Purse Bearer, for that Office is now open to both men and women. I say this with all respect to the present incumbent, who fulfils his role with a dignity I much admire, for although I am in favour of role sharing I have to admit that I have so far stopped short of carrying a purse.
§ Lord DRUMALBYNMy Lords, are we to understand from what the noble Lord has said that, although this Question 1267 was inspired by the particular nature of women as opposed to men, the same rules will apply identically to men and women; that is, that either men or women can re-enter the Service if they have left for any reason, other than a shameful one, obviously?
§ Lord LOVELL-DAVISYes, my Lords; that is the case.
§ Baroness BURTON of COVENTRYMy Lords, as the Minister seems to have a progressive mind on this matter, may I ask him whether he feels that this old canard of marriage might at least be removed from the argument? It he aware that it has been advanced for years and has prevented women who may not wish to marry, or who may not be married, from reaching the top jobs?
§ Lord LOVELL-DAVISYes, my Lords, I fully agree with the noble Baroness. The removal of any bars which prevent women from re-entering the Service, or are in any way prejudicial to them, is entirely acceptable to me.
§ Lord HAILSHAM of SAINT MARYLEBONEMy Lords, will the noble Lord explain to any women applicant for the post of Purse Bearer that she is expected not only to carry the Purse but to dress the Lord Chancellor in the most intimate way?
§ Lord WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether Her Majesty's Government have considered the possibility of part-time employment during the period when women are not able to give all their time to employment?
§ Lord LOVELL-DAVISYes, my Lords. The Civil Service already employs some 16,000 part-time staff and all but 1,000 of these are women. It happens that most of these jobs are in the junior grades, but the number of part-time posts is increasing.
§ Lord SLATERMy Lords, is my noble friend aware—in case there may be some misunderstanding—that there is a form of bias against women in the Civil Service in so far as they are denied the right and the opportunity of entering executive positions? Many of us who have occupied ministerial posts——
§ Several Noble Lords: Question!
1268§ Lord SLATERIs he aware that many of us who have occupied ministerial posts know that within the Department there are promotion panels, and people of both sexes are given the opportunity of making their application for promotion within the Department in which they are engaged; and it would be wrong, as I see it——
§ Several Noble Lords: Speech!
§ Lord SLATERMay I ask my noble friend to make further inquiries as to why women are not receiving the same form of treatment as men inside the Civil Service?
§ Lord LOVELL-DAVISYes, my Lords, and, as noble Lords will know, the Civil Service Department is meeting all the recommendations made by the Kemp-Jones Committee which fully cover the point made by the noble Lord.
§ Lord PANNELLMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the objection which has been made by the noble Lord, Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, is not a new one? Originally the Lord Great Chamberlain used to regard stockings and drawers as the innermost garments of the Monarch; but that idea had to be varied at the time of Queen Anne, and I believe that it comes down to the present day when we have a Queen instead of a King.