HL Deb 17 December 1974 vol 355 cc1040-2
The EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they propose to postpone the inauguration of the Strathclyde Region in order to permit fuller discussion on the Paper entitled Devolution within the United Kingdom.

The MINISTER of STATE, SCOTTISH OFFICE (LORD HUGHES)

My Lords, the inauguration of the Strathclyde Region is an integral part of the reorganisation of Scottish local government which is now too far advanced to be halted. This does not affect discussion of the devolution of central Government functions to a Scottish assembly.

The EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, I appreciate the difficulties involved, but is it not true that in any form of devolution some modification of Strathclyde will become inevitable? So does that mean that a big reorganisation in Scottish local government will take place twice within two or three years? Will that not involve local authorities in a large number of "golden bowlers"?

Lord HUGHES

My Lords, it may be a matter which the assembly in due course will take into consideration. But to attempt to halt reorganisation at the present time would be tantamount to reorganising Scottish local government again within two years.

Lord STRATHCLYDE

My Lords, does the noble Lord's Answer mean that Her Majesty's Government have now decided that there shall be devolution in Scotland?

Lord HUGHES

My Lords, the Answer does not mean that, but Her Majesty's Government have made it perfectly clear that there is to be devolution to Scotland.

Lord DAVIES of LEEK

My Lords, may I as a Welshman warn the Scots—

The LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHEPHERD)

No.

Lord DAVIES of LEEK

That, my Lords, is only the introduction to what I want to say. I should like to ask the noble Lord, Lord Hughes, whether he is aware of the terrible expense of reorganisation of local government, both in Wales and in England, and whether he will try to save Scotland—since they are such a careful nation—from such expense?

Lord HUGHES

My Lords, my noble Welsh friend will be well aware of the fact that we generally try not to emulate the English mistakes. It may be that we are making our own, but we hope that they will not be so expensive as the English ones.