§ 2.51 p.m.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in the light of their recent Statement on defence, they can confirm that it is their intention to continue the organisation of the T & AVR upon lines which will retain existing units of company and squadron strength within it as identifiable entities capable of rapid expansion in times of emergency.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, there will be some reorganisation and amalgamation of existing individual units as a result of the recommendations of the T & AVR Review Committee. But I can confirm that the organisation of the T & AVR will continue on lines which will retain company and squadron units as identifiable entities capable of rapid expansion as required in time of emergency.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his reply, may I ask him to be more precise in what he means by "some reorganisation and amalgamation?" In particular, may I ask whether this will mean the elimination 920 of either distinctive naming or badging of the companies or squadrons, or of the amalgamation of their call-up lists?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, that is rather a wide question. Tomorrow I want to expand on the future of the T & AVR. The situation is that there are certain units which have not been able to recruit to full strength. Certain units will be amalgamated because they have failed to maintain adequate strength. Some new units will be formed. The general aim of the reorganisation will be to improve recruiting and create a more efficient geographical and operational base. A major recruiting programme is foreseen for early next year.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, as the matter of the T & AVR is to be mentioned in the course of our defence debate tomorrow, will the noble Lord say how short of its strength is the T & AVR?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, it is 73 per cent. of forecast strength.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, are we to understand it will remain as such? Is the reorganisation associated with a further reduction or, at any rate, no attempt to increase the number of units in the T & AVR?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, what we are hoping to do is to raise the strength of the T & AVR from its present position of 73 per cent. of establishment to nearer its full establishment of 74,000. That is the object of the present exercise. Her Majesty's Government place great importance upon the T & AVR.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, I am much obliged for that answer. When my noble friend talks about an "establishment", how does that relate to the actual strength? Establishment is one thing—that is a target—but actual strength is another.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, if the noble Lord wishes precision, at the moment the position is that the latest figures available at the end of October this year show there were 53,827 individuals in the T & AVR, which is 73 per cent. of the total establishment as laid down on a legal basis.
The Earl of SELKIRKMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether "reorganisation" means a reduction of establishment?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMNo, my Lords. The establishment remains the same and unchanged.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for giving further information. Do I deduce from what he said (as I think I do) that units of about 73 per cent. strength, or with satisfactory recruiting records, need fear no terrible future?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, indeed. At the moment I should have thought the future for the T & AVR is better than it has ever been. Her Majesty's Government place great emphasis on the continuation and growth of the T & AVR within its existing establishment, which has not been reached.
§ Lord ELTONMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree this depends on the maintenance of the continuity of regimental traditions at present concentrated into units of company and squadron size?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I said that at the beginning of my Answer to the noble Lord.