GREECE: CANCELLATION OF BRITISH NAVAL VISIT (Hansard, 2 April 1974)

§ LORD BARNBY
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS)
My Lords, as was made clear in another place on March 19, this particular visit was cancelled because of our concern at the continuing failure of the Greek Government to restore democracy. To have allowed it to continue would have cast doubt on our well-known and frequently expressed views.

§ LORD BARNBY
My Lords, may I ask the Parliamentary Under-Secretary whether he will urge revision of an ideological policy holding disregard or dislike for the Governments of other 802 countries, especially when it may involve loss of employment here, and particularly at a moment when we are seeking massive overseas borrowings? Secondly, is Soviet Russia included in this category—a country where oppression is much greater than in others that we may dislike, and where the balance of payments is £100 million in her favour?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I suggest that Greece and Soviet Russia are in somewhat different positions in that Greece is a member of NATO, one of the objectives of which is to preserve and maintain democracy. Further, I suggest that we should undertake, as we are doing, a full review of our attitude in cases of this sort against the background of our concern to maintain the efficacy of NATO in every respect, ideological and practical.

§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE
My Lords, would the noble Lord agree there is a contradiction between the line taken by the Foreign Secretary yesterday in the Council of Ministers, when he supported NATO, and this action, which is destructive of NATO?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I cannot agree that this action is destructive of NATO. We maintain a working relationship with the Greek Government; we are partners and allies with them in NATO. We have, however, the right and duty to make clear to them in appropriate ways our deep concern about the way in which internal policies are proceeding in Greece, particularly the intensified suppression of human rights in that country. Secondly, regarding what my right honourable friend said yesterday, if the noble Earl will study my right honourable friend's words further he will find that there is absolutely no contradiction between what I have said and what he said yesterday.

§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE
My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that an appropriate way to deal with Greece is not the same as an insulting way?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, this is not a question of an insult, nor is it a question of behaving in an insulting way. It is a question of a democratic country endeavouring to uphold the principles for which NATO was 803 established, and conveying to another member of that Alliance its feelings about the way in which that country is proceeding within its own borders.

§ LORD WYNNE-JONES
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the North Atlantic Assembly, which is the Parliamentary branch of NATO, has not had a representative from Greece since the present Government was formed in Greece; and, furthermore, that other members, practically every member-nation of the North Atlantic Assembly, has been opposed to the presence of Greece?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, my noble friend answers his own question. I have no desire in the least to intensify the differences between this country and Greece. The fact remains that we are not alone in condemning the Greek régime's policy of the suppression of human rights in that country. The attitude implied in the Assembly, by what my noble friend has said, bears out, and testifies to, the correctness of this country's attitude.

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, can the Minister say, since we are in diplomatic relations with Greece, what are the criteria for cancelling courtesy visits anywhere?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, this was to be, as the noble Baroness has said, an informal national visit. We are now engaged in a review of the general position relating to these and other such visits against the background to which I have referred, and taking into account other factors, including our responsibilities as a Member of the North Atlantic Alliance. I hope that the results of that review will be conveyed to both Houses of Parliament.

§ LORD MAYBRAY-KING
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the gesture of Her Majesty's Government has been received with happiness by the freedom-loving citizens of Greece; and that they resent bitterly the Greek Government's imprisonment of a distinguished former Greek Minister, Mr. Mavros, merely because he has said that he approves of what this Government have done?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, what my noble friend says is absolutely true. We are aware of these facts. But my noble friend, and other noble Lords, will not expect me to engage in any detail about individual cases. I would simply repeat that we view with very great concern indeed the policy followed by a partner and ally of ours in NATO in relation to the kind of incident and individual to which my noble friend has referred.

§ THE EARL OF ONSLOW
My Lords, could the noble Lord tell us—

§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD SHEPHERD)
My Lords, I think that the noble Baroness. Lady Emmet of Amberley, was on her feet before the noble Earl. Perhaps he would give way to the noble Baroness.

§ BARONESS EMMET OF AMBERLEY
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Leader of the House for giving me the opportunity of asking the Minister in charge whether he realises that if he counts on his fingers the number of countries that have a "Westminster Government", he will find that he has very few friends left in the world.

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, it is a question of upholding the principles of democracy and, in that way, of being true to our obligations to NATO, which has, I repeat, if one so likes to call it, an ideological as well as a practical objective.

§ THE EARL OF ONSLOW
My Lords, could the noble Lord tell us, first, whether joint exercises of troops, which may or may not have been planned, will take place in future? Secondly, is he aware that several noble Lords on this side of the House hold the barbarity of the present Greek régime as dirty as he does?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, I appreciate what the noble Earl has just said. On the question of future visits, I cannot go further than what I just said about the Government's reviewing the whole position against the background of, among other factors, NATO and NATO policy.

§ LORD MERRIVALE
My Lords, may I ask the Minister to what extent he feels that the Government's action will influence the present Greek Government towards 805 the restoration of democracy? Does the Minister not feel that if the Government continue along this line the only effect will be that France, Italy, Germany and the United States will be supplying to such countries as Greece, Portugal, South Africa, Chile, and so forth, much more than we shall be in the future?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, on the second part of the noble Lord's observations, I would say that I very much doubt it. On the first part, I would hope that the influence which this country can bring to bear on the Greek régime, through this Administration and their predecessor, might prove helpful to people who are suffering from oppression in Greece.

§ LORD GARDINER
My Lords, after the mutiny of units of the Greek Fleet and the subsequent wholesale retirement of officers and men opposed to the régime, can it any longer be considered that the Greek Fleet is a reliable or efficient component in any NATO Force?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, that is an interesting and technical question into which at the moment I would not wish to enter.

§ LORD STRATHCLYDE
My Lords—

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, may I suggest that after the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, has put his question we should move to the next Question.

§ LORD STRATHCLYDE
My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether, before coming to the decision to cancel this visit, Her Majesty's Government took fully into consideration its possible effect on the Greek Government's placing further orders with British shipyards for naval vessels; and, in particular, its effect on the negotiations, now in their final and most delicate stage, on the Greek Government's orders for two frigates, to a value of £50 million?

§ LORD GORONWY-ROBERTS
My Lords, to both questions the answer is, Yes.

§ LORD STRATHCLYDE
That is daft.