§ 2.50 p.m.
§ LORD BALERNOMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what their policy is regarding bull beef, boar pork and ram lamb.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, Her Majesty's Government are aware of the increasing interest in meat production from entire male animals. Some aspects of bull beef production are at present being examined by the Advisory Council for Agriculture and Horticulture in England and Wales. Boar pork, has in the past had only limited acceptability in the trade. There is at present little interest in rearing ram lambs for meat on any scale, mainly because of the inherent management difficulties.
§ LORD BALERNOMy Lords, in thanking the noble Earl for his reply, may I ask whether he is aware that in many European countries it is fully accepted that bulls produce beef more economically, more quickly and of better quality than do steers; and can he give information as to the amount of such meat as I have mentioned in my Question that is being imported from these Western European countries into this country, thereby putting our own breeders and feeders of livestock at a disadvantage, especially in a time of high feeding costs?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I am aware of the points which my noble friend Lord Balerno made with regard to increased food conversion, and so forth, from this type of animal; but one of the troubles is that there is a resistance both from the trade and from housekeepers to purchasing meat from entire male animals. It is therefore a question of commercial practice whether the public can be persuaded to accept this type of meat. With regard to the second part of my noble friend's question, there are no statistics existing which show imports of meat from uncastrated male animals, but our main overseas suppliers of beef, pork and lamb, which are Australia, New Zealand, the Irish Republic and the Argentine, do not produce significant quantities of meat from entire animals and there is no reason to believe that significant quantities of such meat are sent to us by those countries who do.
§ LORD ROYLEMy Lords, as one who was engaged throughout the war in the grading of food animals, may I ask whether the noble Earl would consider the possibility of reverting to the wartime system whereby entire male animals were used only for manufacture, so that there would be no danger that the housewives would be getting this kind of meat over the counter?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I think it is perfectly true that such entire male animals that do go on the market are mostly used for manufacture, but this must necessarily be a commercial decision, and farmers in this country are perfectly entitled to rear animals from this type of uncastrated male animals provided they find it economically worth while.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that those of us who have been brought up in the country are now looking at any kind of meat we can get, and at the price it is to-day old age pensioners will be lucky if they can get an Oxo cube from a male animal?
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, could the noble Earl tell me why the Government encourage this form of sex discrimination?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, the Government are merely concerned to encourage meat from all sources, whether male or female.
§ VISCOUNT THURSOMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that it does in fact encourage sex discrimination by not paying a calf subsidy on entire animals and not paying a calf subsidy on animals that are not entirely castrated?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, the calf subsidy is in fact payable on whole male animals provided that they come under the Stage B certification and provided they adhere to the appropriate requirements for those animals which are submitted dead weight under the Stage B certification.
THE MARQUESS OF WILLINGDONMy Lords, could the Minister confirm that there is any antagonism at all from the wholesaler on the production of boar pork? Secondly, will he agree with me that the castration of porkers when they are young is extremely cruel? I believe he will agree with me that there is absolutely no opposition by wholesalers to boar porkers.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I could not agree with that. The information which I have is that there is a distinct reluctance from the trade to accept this type of animal. Where there is no reluctance and where the economics are correct, of course this kind of animal can be produced.
EARL FERRERSThe retailer is certainly the obstructionist, but that is passed through to the wholesaler.
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether, when the Government consider their policy in regard to meat, they will bear in mind the price to the consumer, having regard to a report in to-day's paper that one of the meat combines in this country has made £3 million profit this year—twice as much as last—and that the head of the firm got a £16,000 increase in salary, bringing his annual salary up to £53,000?
EARL. FERRERSMy Lords, I am bound to say with respect to the noble Lord, that I cannot help feeling that that question has really little relevance to uncastrated male animals.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, does the noble Earl recognise that whereas Ministers, when replying to questions about food and prices, usually use the term "housewives" he used the term "housekeepers"? Has this any sociological significance in the Government's mind?