HL Deb 28 November 1973 vol 347 cc120-3
LORD THOMAS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will take steps to reduce the maximum permitted speed of goods vehicles during the emergency from 50 m.p.h. to 40 m.p.h. both in the interests of fuel economy and of increased safety by differentiation of speed between classes of vehicles.

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, lorries over 3 tons unladen weight are limited to 40 m.p.h. on all roads except motorways, where the limit is 60 m.p.h. It would be unduly complicated and of doubtful value to vary the voluntary 50 m.p.h. restriction for different classes of vehicle.

LORD THOMAS

My Lords, again I am grateful for that reply. At least it acknowledges some need for a differentiation of speed limits between classes of vehicles. Is the noble Lord aware that there is a growing sport on motorways for heavy goods vehicles to play "cat and mouse" with private motorists who are maintaining the proper 50 m.p.h. or so speed limit and who really ought to be protected against the intimidation and anti-social brutality of those who indulge in this mechanised mania?

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, I think the majority of drivers are co-operating with the request for a voluntary 50 m.p.h. speed limit. I would hope, and the Government would hope, that drivers will keep their calm in the face of any contravention of provocation by this small minority of rather stupid drivers.

BARONESS BACON

My Lords, was I right in understanding the noble Lord to say that certain heavy vehicles were restricted to 40 m.p.h. on certain roads? Could he tell us where these vehicles drive?—because I never see them.

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, all noble Lords and noble Baronesses no doubt have seen motorists or lorry drivers exceeding the speed limit. In so doing, they are breaking the law. We hope that the majority of drivers obey the law.

LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE

My Lords, as the Government admit the differentiation as regards the maximum speed permissible between private and commercial vehicles on the speedway, and there is an appeal for 50 m.p.h. for private cars, would it not be logical for the Govenment now to make an appeal that commercial vehicles shall not travel beyond 40 m.p.h., in order to maintain a differentiation in the voluntary system?

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, various points arise in this connection. Very few of our roads in this country are absolutely flat. I know that many roads are, but many are not. If these heavy lorries are requested to travel at 40 m.p.h., sometimes at the run-up to a small hill they may involve themselves in more gear changing and more use of fuel than they might have done had they been travelling at 50 m.p.h.

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether it is not a fact that this situation of all travelling at 50 m.p.h. leads to very serious bunching which is in fact dangerous? It would seem to me that under the Emergency Powers the Government have the right and The power to reduce the speed limit for these vehicles to 40 m.p.h. If that were done, bunching would to some extent cease on the motorways.

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, we have had this question of bunching raised in regard to every form of speed limit, because the same applies be the speed 30, 50, or 70 m.p.h. There will always be vehicle bunching. On the motorways the great thing to remember is that people have not a right to remain in the middle lane or outer lane. If there is nothing in front of them they should go into the inner lane, and then there is usually plenty of time to overtake.

LORD DAVIES OF LEEK

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that some of us would not like it to go out from this noble House that we thought the British lorry driver was an irresponsible driver? Having eaten in transport cafés, it is my finding, like that of noble Lords all over Britain, that some of the most courteous people are the heavy lorry drivers whose bread and butter depends upon skilful driving. Consequently, this point of view should be taken into account: that some of the younger drivers with sports cars are more dangerous.

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOUR TON

My Lords, although the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek, may have been making something of a statement I should like to support him in that in my experience, and the experience of the Department of the Environment, most lorry drivers are courteous and good law-abiding citizens.

LORD DAVIES OF LEEK

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I prefaced that statement, sotto voce, with the words: "Is the noble Lord aware…"?

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, since we are dealing with the subject of fuel saving, would the noble Lord perhaps consider applying a speed limit of 50 m.p.h. to aeroplanes flying over London; and might this not reduce the noise?

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, that might have some effect on the saving of fuel, but safety angles come into this question, too.