HL Deb 15 November 1973 vol 346 cc751-3

3.14 p.m.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will now confirm the assurance given to Parliament on November 22, 1972 (Hansard, col. 1019), that the resources of the British sector of the North Sea Continental Shelf "are national assets and will be treated as such".

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)

My Lords, following the debate on Lord Balogh's Motion on November 22 I wrote to the noble Lord on December 12 in amplification of what I had said in the debate on this matter. In my letter I said: The Government have made it clear that North Sea petroleum is a national asset in the same way as oil and gas and other minerals found on land in the United Kingdom. I can assure you that the petroleum resources of the whole of the United Kingdom Continental Shelf will continue to be treated as national assets in our policy for their exploration and exploitation, and we shall ensure that British interests are taken fully into account as Community energy policy is developed. This remains the Government's view.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. May I ask whether he is aware that the publication of those words will give great heart to those who have been anxious on this matter? Could my noble friend go a stage further and say whether what he has just said refers also to the British United Kingdom possessions overseas?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I am afraid that I would need notice of that question, but the Geneva Convention has already been referred to, and I would guess that that would apply.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, is the Minister aware that in the present position of our being blackmailed by Arab sheikhs over oil, the assets are not Britain's but those of cosmopolitan capitalists? Does he not think that we ought now to nationalise the petroleum area of the North Sea to ensure that it is ours?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, there is no doubt that the ownership is national. What happens is that a licence to exploit is granted to various licensees.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Conservative Party gave the licences to the outside capitalist organisations and that they ought to have nationalised the area at the time?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I take note of the noble Lord's view.

LORD ORR-EWING

My Lords, my noble friend says a licence to exploit has been given to various consortia. Since many of these consortia are American-dominated, in cases where the oil does not come ashore from pipelines to the United Kingdom, but may be stored in concrete reservoirs, is it open to those consortia to sell it to anyone or is there some condition written into the original agreement making it essential that the oil should go to Britain?

LORD DRUMALBYN

Yes, my Lords, as the licences are at present, it is obligatory to bring the oil to Britain.

LORD HUGHES

My Lords, if I may return to the broad lines of the original Question, can the Minister inform us whether there is any Community law, directive, regulation or decision which could, now or in the future, be used to limit the power of Her Majesty's Government in this matter?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I am not aware of any such law that could in any way affect our regarding these as national assets.

LORD HUGHES

My Lords, if the Minister is not aware of any such law, would he investigate further so that he may be able to give us a firm assurance that there is no such law or other minor decision of the Commission or the Council of Ministers which could be so used?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, it is very difficult to know what could be so used in different circumstances. I have given the situation as it is at present.

LORD HUGHES

In that case, my Lords, all that we are being told is that at the moment the Government are in a position to regard these as British assets, but they cannot say whether that is going to continue to be the position.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, we regard them as British assets and I see no way in which legislation could be passed in the Community, or any agreement reached, without our consent.

LORD HUGHES

That I accept, my Lords. I would ask the Minister to make quite certain that there is in fact no such law at the present time which could be applied against us. Obviously, we could veto future decisions, but what I want to make certain about is that the Minister will assure himself, and then assure us, that there is no such decision at the present time; because many of us are alarmed at the way in which at least some people on the Continent and in the Commission regard this oil as a European asset and not a British asset.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I think the best thing I can do is to say that I will look further into this point to see whether there is anything in it. All I can say is that no representations have been made to us so far by the E.E.C.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, is it not the case that Britain's ratification of the Convention, I think in 1964, anteceded our accession to the European Community by some nine years, and therefore it take priority in that sense at least?

LORD DRUMALBYN

Yes, my Lords; that is so.