HL Deb 13 November 1973 vol 346 cc559-61

2.48 p.m.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government, arising from the public flogging in Ovambo of Andreeas Nunkwawo for alleged political offences and of three women nursing students for absence without leave, if they will immediately ask the United Nations Security Council, in view of the United Nations claim of authority over Namibia (South West Africa), to demand that such treatment shall cease.

THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)

My Lords, I share the noble Lord's concern. We regard this as the primary responsibility of the South African Government, whom we have urged to investigate and to end practices of this kind. The Security Council will discuss South West Africa when it considers Dr. Waldheim's report.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, while welcoming that reply, may I ask the noble Baroness whether it is not rather belated to await the meeting of the Security Council on this matter, which meeting is not to be held for some time? Has the noble Baroness had her attention drawn to the fact that the Bishop of South West Africa says that there have now been 100 floggings of this nature, and that only yesterday, at the Anglican Synod of South Africa, reports were made of three men who had been given 30 strokes last week and not one of whom was charged with any violence?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, it is for the President of the Security Council to convene the Council in consultation with its members; and the noble Lord will recall that Article 24 of the United Nations Charter gives the Security Council primary responsibility for the maintenance of peace and security. On the number of people who have been treated in this way, I can only say that I understand that in a number of cases interdicts have been granted by the Supreme Court in Windhoek, whose final judgment is still awaited.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness this further question? She referred to the particular responsibility of the South African Government. Is it not the case that the tribal authority which authorises these brutal floggings has a majority nominated by the South African Government, and that the people of Ovambo themselves have absolutely repudiated the authority of this tribal authority?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, all I can say is that the South African Government have told us that they do not feel able to intervene in what they regard as the operation of the traditional institutions and usages of the Ovambo people. They also tell us that everyone has a right of appeal.

LORD SHEPHERD

But, my Lords, is it not a fact that these persons who were flogged were in fact handed over to the tribal authority by the courts and the police of South Africa?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, I understand they were handed over by the security police, not by the courts.

BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOE

My Lords, is it not a little late to appeal after you have been flogged?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, I was referring to the number of cases in which interdicts had already been granted.

THE MARQUESS OF WINCHESTER

My Lords, could Her Majesty's Government possibly tell us whether these people were flogged with some form of cat-o'-nine-tails, or were they in fact caned?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, I understand that, according to local custom, it was part of a palm tree.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, perhaps the noble Baroness could draw to the attention of some noble Lords that this is not a laughing matter.

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, I do not think that is for me to say.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness whether it is not the case that the South African Government gave to Dr. Waldheim, representing the United Nations, a promise that there would be no limitation of freedom of speech or political activity in South-West Africa? Is it not a scandal about which we all ought to protest at the United Nations that these appalling floggings for political speech and no violence should be carried out?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, I understand that legislation under which Ovambo became self-governing in May this year provides for the duties, powers, authorities and functions of the Paramount Chiefs to remain in force and for the establishment of a High Court for the area.