HL Deb 22 May 1973 vol 342 cc1181-8

7.20 p.m.

LORD BETHELL

My Lords, I beg to move that this Report be now received.

Moved, That the Report be now received—(Lord Bethell.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Clause 1 [Control of heavy commercial vehicles]:

LORD BETHELL moved Amendment No. 1: Page 2, line 21, leave out ("1st April") and insert ("16th May").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, this is a purely technical Amendment, resulting from the fact that the new Local Authorities for Scotland come into operation, under the Local Government (Scotland) Bill, on May 16 and not on April 1, as in England and Wales.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD BETHELL moved Amendment No. 2: Page 2, line 24, leave out ("(within the meaning of the Police Act 1964)").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, this, again, is a purely technical Amendment. It is thought that Section 62 of the Police Act 1964 already gives a clear enough meaning to the phrase "chief officer of police" and it is therefore not necessary to refer expressly in this Bill to the 1964 Act. The phrase which we propose to leave out is therefore unnecessary. I beg to move.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2 [Duty of local authority to take measures for control of heavy commercial vehicles]:

LORD BETHELL moved Amendment No. 3:

Page 5, line 10, at end insert— ("or (c) that it was parked in contravention of this section but the conditions specified in subsection (2A) below were satisfied.

(2A) The conditions mentioned in subsection (2)(c) above are—

  1. (a) that the vehicle was parked on the verge of a road or on a footway for the purpose of loading or unloading; and
  2. (b) that the loading or unloading of the vehicle could not have been satisfactorily performed if it had not been parked on the footway or verge; and
  3. (c) that the vehicle was not left unattended at any time while it was so parked.").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, this is a somewhat more substantial Amendment. It arises from the Amendment put down in the Committee stage by my noble friends Lord Davidson, Lord Gisborough and Lord Middleton, who were concerned about the effect of Clause 2 on farmers and other persons engaged in agriculture who might require to park vehicles in rural areas on verges. My noble friends took the view that Clause 2 as proposed was somewhat too severe, and other noble Lords were concerned that the provisions in the Bill whereby exemption from prosecution under this clause could be obtained by reference to a police officer might result in overloading of work on the police, and therefore the sponsors of the Bill undertook to look at the situation and to consider any possible way of meeting the points raised by my noble friends.

I can now say that the sponsors of the Bill have looked at the matter again and have been helpfully advised by officials of the Department of the Environment, and we have decided to propose an Amendment which I hope my noble friends will agree goes a very long way to meeting their point; in fact it meets it in every substantial particular. The Amendment proposed provides that no person shall be convicted of an offence for parking on a verge or a pavement provided that he is engaged in necessary loading or unloading and that this loading or unloading could not have been satisfactorily performed unless the vehicle had been parked on the footway or verge, and also provided that the vehicle was not left unattended at any time while it was so parked. The Amendment proposed is somewhat stronger than the Amendment proposed by my noble friends, but it represents a major concession from the unamended Clause 2 of the Bill. It is felt that a vehicle should be attended during loading and unloading, partly in order that persons who may be blind or disabled should not have their passage across the pavement or footway obstructed or that blind persons should not inadvertently run into such a vehicle.

It was also considered whether such an exemption might be extended to parking on pavements as well as on verges in rural areas, which is proposed by my noble friends. Partly because of the complications in defining what is a rural area it was decided to make a concession right across the board, taking into consideration the difficulties which would undoubtedly be imposed on drivers of heavy vehicles, in urban areas as well as rural areas who might well feel the necessity to park on pavements in order to deliver their goods in an essential manner.

This clause, even under this Amendment, provides a strengthening of the position before this Bill becomes law. It will not now be possible, if this Bill is passed, for vehicles to be parked on pavements or on verges and then abandoned while the driver has a meal or even spends the night; it will not be allowed. So long as loading takes place in the presence of a driver or a person in charge of the vehicle it will be possible for a policeman who comes across such a vehicle to order that it be moved if it is parked in such a way as to cause extreme inconvenience or danger to the public. It is for this reason that the sponsors of the Bill have felt it necessary to require that a vehicle be not left unattended.

My Lords, I hope that those who are concerned about the over-loading of work on the police will also be pleased by this Amendment. Clearly, the need to take recourse to seeking permission to park from the police will now be much less frequently necessary; and also, presumably, the police will hardly ever feel the necessity to give such permission because the sponsors of the Bill feel that almost all the conditions providing for the eventuality of parking on a verge or pavement are provided for. Only in very exceptional circumstances would someone need to apply to the police for permission. Nevertheless, I understand that the Home Office have indicated that the police will always be prepared to consider a request for parking, but, obviously, they would not like this to happen on an across-the-board scale, as was initially envisaged. I hope, therefore, that this Amendment will gain the support of the House and that the noble Lords who spoke to this Amendment at the Committee stage, and all your Lord ships, will agree to pass it. I beg to move.

VISCOUNT DAVIDSON

My Lords, I should like to express my very warm appreciation and congratulations to my noble friend Lord Bethell in the formal sponsoring of this Bill for proposing this Amendment, which I fully support. So far as I can see, it fully covers the points raised by the Amendment which was tabled at the Committee stage by my noble friends Lord Middleton, Lord Gisborough and myself; and indeed I would go so far as to say that, as my noble friend Lord Bethell has described it, it is an improvement to our Amendment.

I have little else to say, except to convey my congratulations to my noble friend Lord Bethell and my noble friend Lord Mowbray and Stourton and his Department on the way in which this matter has been resolved in the short space of a week. It just goes to show what can be done by constructive consultations by all those concerned in solving the problem, and it is a very satisfactory conclusion. I believe that the Bill will have been improved considerably by the inclusion of this Amendment.

LORD STOW HILL

My Lords, I should like to say just one word from the point of view of those who organise country fairs. The noble Lord, Lord Bethell, will remember that I ventured to intervene on their behalf when this aspect of the Bill was under consideration. I hope that the House will support the Amendment which he has now moved. The noble Lord did not in explaining the Amendment say that he had taken into account the point of view of those who organise country fairs. I hope that he did give thought to it. My belief is that the Amendment will be of great assistance to them. I certainly thank the noble Lord for this change in the law that he is proposing. I am a little disappointed that he was unable to go a little further on that, but I am glad that he has, by his Amendment, removed one burden from the shoulders of the police. They are most heavily pressed, and I think every attempt to make their work easier is to be commended. I hope that if this burden is lifted from their shoulders they will possibly find it a little easier to accede to approaches from those who organise country fairs.

The noble Lord, Lord Mowbray and Stourton, indicated that possibly a circular or a directive was another approach to the showmen's problem, and I am grateful to him for what he said. The combination of this Amendment, plus a more frequent use of directives in this context, will I feel make the position of those who organise country fairs much easier. I am therefore grateful both to the Minister and to the noble Lord. Lord Bethell.

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, as a Member of your Lordships' House who supported the noble Viscount, Lord Davidson, when he moved his original Amendment in Committee, I must say that I welcome the Amendment put down by the noble Lord, Lord Bethell. Without being over finicky I wonder what is meant by subsection (2A)(c). When is a vehicle left unattended? Would it be unattended when the driver was actually unloading and the vehicle was left some little time? Is there some period of time that would satisfy the noble Lord, and would ensure that the driver was not prosecuted for leaving the vehicle unattended on a verge? I do not know whether the noble Lord can tell me about that? If not, perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Mowbray and Stourton, might have some information on the point that would help us.

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, the House will not be surprised when I say that this Amendment is totally acceptable to the Government. I should like to congratulate my noble friend Lord Bethell and the sponsor of the Bill in another place on having worked together so satisfactorily with the officials of the Department of the Environment and also the officials of the Home Office. They have all got together in a most satisfactory manner to achieve in such a short period the result which meets the wishes expressed by my noble friends Lord Davidson and Lord Middleton, the noble Lord, Lord Stow Hill, and my noble friend Lord Amory, all of whom expressed anxiety about the already intolerable burden of work laid upon our police forces. This will certainly lessen the obligations put upon them. For once common sense has, I think, reared its head in a very sensible manner.

I turn to the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Champion. It was appreciated that this was a point that needed thought. People asked whether the vehicle would need a couple of drivers or an extra person to be in attendance and to sit in the driver's seat. I understand that that is not the case. If someone is actually working on the loading or unloading of the vehicle, it is thought that the vehicle could not be regarded as being left unattended. It is only where such work is interrupted for an interval of some duration and the driver is absent from the vehicle that it could be reasonably regarded as being left unattended. If this work is so interrupted and the vehicle is there for some little time, under the clause we have been discussing, normally speaking, a driver helping with the work would be within the law.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Then, Standing Order No. 42 having been suspended (pursuant to Resolution of May 17):

7.34 p.m.

LORD BETHELL

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a third time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 3a.—(Lord Bethell.)

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, I do not feel we should allow this Bill to pass without congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, on piloting it so well through this House. True, it is only a small measure, but nevertheless it necessitated a considerable knowledge of the Act upon which it is based, and the noble Lord is to be congratulated not only upon the Bill, but upon the way he has handled it.

On Question, Bill read 3a, with the Amendments.

LORD BETHELL

My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill do now pass. I should like to say a sincere "Thank you" to all those noble Lords who have assisted in the consideration of this Bill; to the Front Benchers of all Parties, and to the noble Lord, Lord Champion, and my noble friend Lord Mowbray and Stourton and his Department, who have assisted most helpfully in the preparation of material for the Bill, and in particular for one substantial Amendment which has been made in your Lordships' House. I am grateful also to other noble Lords who have spoken in the debates, and especially to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Stow Hill, the noble Lord, Lord Lucas of Chilworth, and my three noble friends who proposed the Amendment on which the present Amendment is based.

Moved, That the Bill do now pass.—(Lord Bethell.)

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, I should like to add my few words to those of my noble friend Lord Bethell and the noble Lord, Lord Champion. We are all grateful to my noble friend and to the sponsor of the Bill in another place. The Government are grateful, and I think the country will be grateful also in due course when the fruits of the Bill are seen by all.

On Question, Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.