HL Deb 17 May 1973 vol 342 cc909-10

3.14 p.m.

LORD MAELOR

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the average death rate from tuberculosis per 10,000 of the population in the United Kingdom and in Caernarvonshire in particular.

THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)

My Lords, the average death rate from tuberculosis per 10,000 population of the United Kingdom was 0.31 in 1971; in Caernarvonshire the comparable figure at that time was 1.06. Later summary figures for the whole of the United Kingdom are not yet available, but in 1972 the figure for England and Wales was 0–30 while the figure for Caernarvonshire had decreased to 0.49.

LORD MAELOR

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the information he has given has relieved and encouraged me very much indeed? Is he further aware that in a recent speech given widespread publicity the geriatric consultant for North-West Wales stated: Caernarvonshire's tuberculosis death rate was still the highest in North-West Europe."? And further, said Dr. Jones— Despite this, Caernarvonshire County Council were spending less money on public health than any other county in Wales in 1938. Would the Minister not agree that this medical officer should be reprimanded for the speech that he made, and that a tribute should be paid to the Caernarvonshire County Council, the medical staff and my right honourable friend the M.P. for Caernarvon, on the figures which the Minister has given this afternoon?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for allowing me to put the Record straight, because the allocations made by the doctor to whom he referred are not accurate. The figure for Caernarvonshire is relatively high, but some other areas had still higher rates in 1972 and there is no truth in the fact that Caernarvon had the highest rate in North-West Europe. On the other hand, the Caernarvon-shire County Council has spent a great deal of money on this particular aspect of its duties, and the average that they spent per capita in the financial year 1971–72 was greater than the average for England and greater than the average for Wales.

LORD MAELOR

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that observation.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether, in view of the increased incidence of bovine tuberculosis, he can say that this higher figure (he has given the figure for Caernarvon) for other areas, many of them rural areas, is related to infected milk?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I usually have an answer for the noble Baroness, but on this occasion I am absolutely stumped. May I please look into the matter and write to her?

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, can the noble Lord explain why, even on the basis of his most recent figures, the death rate for Caernarvonshire should still be 60 per cent. above the average rate of the country?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, the fact is that in Caernarvonshire the problem has been serious, but it is rapidly dropping and we hope that the drop will continue. Notifications of tuberculosis in all forms have fallen from 34 in 1971 in Caernarvonshire to 28, which is the provisional figure for 1972. That is in line with decreases in other parts of the country.