HYDE PARK POP CONCERTS (Hansard, 10 May 1973)

§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOE
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, last year the two Pop concerts in Hyde Park for which permission had been given did not take place because of competition from other similar events. This year, seventeen Pop concerts are likely to be held in London. In all the circumstances, my honourable friend the Minister for Housing and Construction decided not to give permission for Pop concerts in Hyde Park this year, as there appeared to be no substantial public demand for them. He will review the matter again before next summer and will be in touch with the Advisory Committee on Pop Festivals.

§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOE
My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord again for that reply, may one ask who it was his right honourable friend consulted to find out whether there was any demand? Surely there are many different opinions about that. I should like to ask the noble Lord whether he realises that the 17 concerts which have been allowed cost something like £1.50 to enter, and the concerts in Hyde Park are free; and further, that the youth in this country feel that there is a great tradition for having the concerts in Hyde Park.

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, my honourable friend is not under the impression that there is a substantial demand. Up to this morning there had been only 12 letters of complaint. This morning the thirteenth complaining letter arrived, from a Young Conservative group. The young to-day are affluent. The parks are places which have particular characters of their own, and while the majority of young people attending these concerts are well-behaved, anti-social action does occasionally cause concern. As I am sure noble Lords realise, one of the glories of the Royal Parks is that they offer comparatively large areas of peace and quiet in central London for the enjoyment of the public.

§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOE
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in the report commissioned by the Department of the Environment the behaviour of the young people was 509 praised by the police, by the Church and by the official medical attenders?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, I emphasised earlier that the majority are well behaved it is only a small minority who are not. But there is still a litter problem, and there is still a majority of people whose peace and quiet is disturbed.

§ LORD ROYLE
My Lords, I wonder whether your Lordships' House would permit a very old man to support his much younger noble friend in this matter? Is the noble Lord aware that in the adolescent days of my own generation we were very gregarious people indeed, and there was introduced to us a new kind of music called jazz—and we were just as enthusiastic and glad to get together about it as the modern generation is with their kind of music? I wonder whether the Government would look at this matter again.

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, as I am sure the noble Lord will appreciate, there are other places, such as Crystal Palace, the White City, Wembley Stadium and Earl's Court, which are all in London. Although it would cost a little money if young people wanted to go to these places, they are there and they are available.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the number of letters received following the experience of the Watergate affair is little indication as to the real feeling which exists? I have certainly had letters from young people who are deeply disappointed and think that the attitude of this country is reflected in the way that certain noble Lords have reacted on this matter.

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, my honourable friend the Minister for Housing and Construction has said that if there is a continuing and substantial public demand for the holding of such concerts he will reconsider the matter.

§ LORD DERWENT
My Lords, would my noble friend be good enough to ask his honourable friend, before he considers next year, whether he would take some steps to ascertain the views of members of the public who normally use Hyde Park at weekends?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, that is precisely one of the points that my honourable friend has taken into account.

§ LORD SHINWELL
My Lords, does the noble Lord realise how disappointing his Answer is? After all, if the Government cannot provide cheap bread, why not give the public a circus?

§ BARONESS BIRK
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord would be good enough to answer the Question. He still has not answered it. He has given two contradictory replies. In reply to my noble friend he said there had been no substantial demand, and then went on to say that the Park should be kept for peaceful and quiet events. What in fact is the real answer? Has there been a demand by any organisation for a Pop concert in Hyde Park?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, I do not think I have contradicted myself. I accept that one of the characteristics of the Royal Parks is that they are places of peace and quiet. This is generally accepted. Equally, my honourable friend the Minister for Housing and Construction accepts that if there were a large and substantial demand for these concerts and they could be held in reasonable security, he would consider this matter again. He has not been adamant.

§ LORD KENNET
My Lords, how do the Government measure demand? Were there not about 200,000 people present at the last Pop concert in Hyde Park, and has there not in fact been a demand from the same organisers this year to mount concerts? May I also ask the noble Lord whether it is the case that the Government have also banned an exhibition which the Arts Council intended to hold beside the old tea house in Hyde Park?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, in reply to the noble Lord's last question, I am afraid I cannot give him a very helpful reply. Perhaps he would like to put down a Question about that matter. On the other point, two Pop concerts were applied for by the present applicants last year, but the concerts were not held.

§ LORD CONESFORD
My Lords, whether Pop concerts are good or bad, is it not quite obvious that they are noisy? 511 Is it not equally obvious that there are literally hundreds of thousands of people who like to be quiet, and that their requirements are very seldom looked into? Is it not very desirable that there should be some places where silence can be enjoyed?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, I thank my noble friend. My honourable friend the Minister does not wish to be adamant. He accepts all those points, and that is one of the reasons why he has taken this decision for this year. He is not adamant, but he likes the parks to retain their present character.

BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES or HASTOE
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for the first part of that reply, but could he not explain to his honourable friend and to his noble friend that it is splendid to have the parks quiet for all the rest of the year, but the request was made for only four concerts this time? Does the noble Lord not think it is reasonable for those who like that kind of noise to have it for four Saturdays out of the whole year?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, as I said, there are several other places in London. Last year the same organisation applied for two concerts, and they were not held.