§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, now that the United Kingdom is a member of the E.E.C., they will encourage local authorities to prohibit smoking in cinemas and other places of entertainment in their area as is done in the other countries of the Community.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)My Lords, I understand that not all other countries in the E.E.C. have a ban on smoking in cinemas, and we do not believe that compulsion would be appropriate in this country. Some cinemas now provide special accommodation for nonsmokers. Smoking in the auditorium is already prohibited by the management in virtually all theatres.
§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for his reply, and I stand corrected in the mistake I made about compulsion in the European Economic Community. Does not the noble Lord think that it would be a great help to those who want to discourage the use of tobacco, particularly in the form of cigarettes, if some kind of ban could be placed upon its use in cinemas?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I think that this is a matter much better left to the management. What is happening already is that the pressure of non-smokers is being felt, and I am glad to say that the Rank Organisation has now set aside accommodation for non-smokers in all 296 their cinemas. I believe that that is the way we should proceed.
§ BARONESS SEROTAMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell us why it is not offensive for non-smoking to be made compulsory in theatres while it is in cinemas?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, that is a decision that has been made by the management and the only reason I can suggest to the noble Baroness is that possibly the actors on the stage prefer not to have smoke drifting into their eyes.
§ BARONESS BACONMy Lords, if, as the noble Lord says, seats are set aside for non-smokers in cinemas, can he enlighten me as to how they manage to keep the smoke above the heads of the smokers?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, that is a matter for the Rank Organisation.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he feels that his Department could help in this particular matter? Would he agree with me that it seems that although people think it is very fussy and wrong for non-smokers to object to the smell of smoke, it is quite all right for smokers to inflict that smell on others? And may I ask him, as one who has recently been to one of these Rank cinemas, if he could, if not exert pressure, at least commend them further for what they have done?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, as a non-smoker, I am on the side of those who object to smoke in their eyes. It is because T commend what the Rank Organisation is doing that I specifically mentioned them this afternoon.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, does my noble friend realise that if smoking was banned in all cinemas and theatres it would be of great help to many of us who smoke too much?
§ LORD WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, is it not necessary to have a smoke screen to hide the operations of the Common Market?
§ LORD SLATERMy Lords, every Minister of Health at some time or other has been faced with this particular question and my noble friend Lady Burton 297 of Coventry was one of the forerunners in regard to the non-smoking campaign so far as British Railways are concerned who have non-smoking compartments. On the other hand, statements have been made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in another place that the tax imposed on cigarettes or tobacco makes a great contribution towards financing the education facilities in this country and also the National Health Service.
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I am interested to hear what the noble Lord has said, but I am afraid that he is going very wide of the original Question.
§ LORD FERRIERMy Lords, as a pipe smoker who would not dream of smoking a pipe in a cinema, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware that in a cinema the smell of cigarette smoke is not only offensive but most distracting to a pipe smoker?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I was not aware of that point, but I am very interested to hear it.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, is the Minister aware that I believe that by our entry into the E.E.C. we have given over our birthright? Do not carry it too far and stop us having our smoke.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, to return to the Minister's first Answer, may I ask whether he could explain why he approves of people in other countries in the Common Market being protected from contracting cancer of the lung, but does not approve of this happening in this country?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I do not think that that was the gist of my first Answer. I certainly said nothing about approving what other countries in the E.E.C. did; I merely stated that not all of them ban smoking. Italy and Ireland have no ban on smoking and the other countries vary. In fact, such banning as there was in other European countries was mainly for fire precaution reasons and not on the grounds of health.
§ THE EARL OF CORK AND ORRERYMy Lords, would my noble friend care for a pinch of snuff?
§ LORD GAINFORDMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend the Minister 298 whether he is aware that during the last months of the London County Council and the earliest months of the Greater London Council, recommendations were made for banning smoking in cinemas in the London area in spite of the excellent fire precautions?
§ LORD ABERDAREYes, my Lords. I am very grateful to my noble friend for making that point.
§ LORD MAELORMy Lords, could I persuade the Minister, as a non-smoker, that half the pleasure in sitting in a cinema is derived from having a smoke at the same time?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, it may be for the smokers, but it is not always for the non-smokers.