HL Deb 01 March 1973 vol 339 cc755-8
VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government, now that they have stopped the export of sheep on the hoof for slaughter, whether they intend to take similar action with regard to cattle.

EARL FERRERS

No, my Lords. The decision to suspend export licences for sheep, other than for breeding or exhibition, was taken as a result of widespread breaches of the Balfour Assurances as regards the treatment of sheep exported for slaughter. There have been no comparable substantiated reports which would justify similar action in respect of cattle.

VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, would he not agree that for some considerable time there has been evidence from various bodies and individuals that the Balfour Assurances are not being adhered to with respect to cattle? Should not this trade, for humane reasons be stopped? If Her Majesty's Government do not feel so inclined, should they not try to ensure that the Balfour Assurances are adhered to with regard to the export of cattle?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, as I indicated in my original Answer, we have no evidence that the Balfour Assurances in regard to cattle are not being adhered to. If my noble friend has evidence and cares to let me know of it, I will see that it is produced. I would remind him that the reason for banning the export of sheep is simply that the Balfour Assurances have been broken. It is because we do not wish to see them broken that we have taken this action.

LORD ROYLE

My Lords, apart from the humane aspect, and that is most important, does the noble Earl not agree that the economic side is also important? There is the question of by-products. We are suffering from a growing shortage of leather in this country and are exporting cattle with valuable hides. Cannot the matter be looked at from the economic as well as the humane point of view?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, with the greatest respect to the noble Lord, Lord Royle, I do not think we want to get the two things muddled up. The ban on the export of sheep is based, and what my noble friend is requiring, a ban on the export of cattle, would be based, entirely on humane grounds, on contraventions of the Balfour Assurances. In our view, no such contravention, to any reasonable extent, has taken place with regard to cattle. As to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Royle, we are also concerned with the economic side of the matter. That is another reason why we should not wish to see a wholesale ban on exports.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, why should the noble Earl suggest that my noble friend's supplementary question does not bear on the Question on the Order Paper?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I did not say so. I said that we must not get the two things muddled tip. One side is economic, the selling of cattle for export; the other is a matter of animal health and welfare.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, is it not possible for the noble Earl and his Government to consider two things at once without muddling them up? Would he not agree that the economic considerations should lead us to the view that there is a case for banning the export of cattle?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, it is because the Government have considered both these things without muddling them up that they have decided that the export of sheep should be banned and the export of cattle should not.

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that there is nothing in the E.E.C. Treaties which in any way inhibits our complete freedom of action in this sphere?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, a complete ban on the export of live animals would appear to be incompatible with 'our Treaty obligations. The Balfour Assurances still apply. We have asked for discussions on the improvement of animal welfare and humane slaughter throughout the Community.

VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that the real reason we cannot ban this trade at the moment is that we have not enough slaughterhouses licensed to kill livestock for export? If that is the case, can my noble friend say whether the Government could increase the number of licensed slaughterhouses to be used for this purpose and bring them up to the required standards?

EARL FERRERS

No, my Lords; I cannot confirm what my noble friend wishes me to confirm. In fact, exported meat accounts for only about 1 per cent. of the total output of our abattoirs and I have no reason to believe that the position which my noble friend postulates is correct.