ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS (Hansard, 28 June 1973)

§ LORD BARNBY
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, when someone is found to be in this country illegally, it is normal practice to send him away, but each case is considered according to the particular circumstances.

§ LORD BARNBY
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that my Question was put down before the Statement on Tuesday by the Secretary of State, but that nevertheless I welcome the confirmation he has given of the very full Statement that was made on that occasion? Is the noble Viscount further aware that at the same time I am rather startled that the Statement should have disclosed that there were 250 Members apparently prepared to express sympathy with the law being broken? Arising from the reply and in view of the great difficulty that existed during the taking of the census in getting full reports in cities such as Bradford—where there is a large non-white population and where there was a refusal to comply with the requirements of the census officers—could the noble Viscount now report whether there is any progress in getting the information which is so important and which was denied to them at that time?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, I do not think I ought to comment on what happened in another place on Tuesday, though noble Lords, if they can get hold of a copy of the transcript, will be enlightened by the Report of the debate. What I can say to my noble friend is that, first, we can discuss this fully to-morrow on the Bill which is being introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury; secondly, the question of the census is different and 2066 totally divorced from the general purport of this Question on the Order Paper; and thirdly, I must remind the House that my right honourable friend has said that there is not going to be a witch hunt to look for these people. If they come to light they will be dealt with accordingly, but we are not taking special measures to seek them out.

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, appreciating the complexities of this problem, and reserving comment until tomorrow's Bill is introduced, may I ask whether it is not the case that the great majority of these immigrants carry British passports giving them freedom of movement and protection; and that it has in the past been accepted that if they are in this country for six months without offence proceedings will not be taken against them for deportation?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, as to whom they are, I cannot tell the noble Viscount for the simple reason that we do not know. We do not know under what passport they may have travelled because we do not know their details from the very hypothesis that they are illegal entrants who have not come to the notice of the authorities. As to the situation before January 1 of this year, it was true that under the 1968 Act somebody who entered illegally could be prosecuted under the ordinary rule within six months—that is the Magistrates' Courts Act—and after that it was impossible to prosecute and therefore there could not be deportation. That was reversed by the 1971 Act by this House sitting in a judicial capacity.

§ LORD BLYTON
My Lords, could the Minister assure the House that an illegal action will in no way become a legal right?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, I am sorry, I did not hear the noble Lord's question.

§ LORD BLYTON
My Lords, could the Minister assure the House that an illegal action will in no way become a legal right?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, this is an extremely sound point and is one of the basic principles—there were four of them—that my right honourable friend was talking about in the other place on Tuesday.

§ LORD MERRIVALE
My Lords, bearing in mind what my noble friend said in reply to the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government have any information as to whether these illegal immigrants, such as they may be, are mainly of Asian descent, or whether there are some which may be of African or West African descent?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, so far as I know, we have identified 36 people. I think the preponderance are Pakistanis and the rest are Indians, or are from that part of the world. I cannot tell the House exactly what their passport situation is.

§ LORD SEGAL
My Lords, since the Home Office already has a well-established tradition of compassion and clemency where cases of individual cruelty may be involved, could the noble Viscount give an assurance that this tradition will be maintained, even when large numbers have to be dealt with?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, there are two halves to this matter. People who have entered illegally since the 1971 Act came into force last January will be dealt with in the ordinary way. There has been a special undertaking given by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary that those who were here illegally before then and who escaped detection will have their cases dealt with individually by a Minister before any decision is taken upon them. This is compassionate and I explained the grounds in a supplementary answer on the Statement I made last week.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, could the noble Viscount, through his noble friend the Leader of the House, see whether the important Statement made by the Home Secretary could be made available this afternoon and prior to the debate to-morrow?

§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD WINDLESHAM)
My Lords, I had already noted that point. It would be useful for the debate on Lord Avebury's Bill tomorrow. I have had a copy of the transcript and I see no reason why we should not try to arrange for additional copies to be available in the Printed Paper Office.

§ LORD BARNBY
My Lords, could my noble friends give any indication, as he referred to illegal entrants before January 1, of the number of cases that are likely to be dealt with? There have been some very large numbers quoted in the Press.

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Napier and Ettrick asked me exactly this question last week, and I am afraid that my answer now is as it was then: I do not know; from the nature of the case they have not been detected.