EGYPTIAN STAMPS: DISTRIBUTION BY CROWN AGENTS (Hansard, 25 June 1973)

LORD JANNER
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)
No, my Lords. The Crown Agents have no responsibility for the design or commissioning of this stamp for the Arab Republic of Egypt. They act only as agents for the distribution of the stamp.

LORD JANNER
My Lords, does the noble Baroness really suggest that the distribution of no stamp, no matter how horrific or pornographic it may be, can be stopped if the Crown Agents are sent them by the Egyptian or any other Government? This is a shocking stamp, as the noble Baroness knows. Is there not any method by which its distribution can be stopped?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, the British Government do not interfere in the relationships between the Crown Agents and their principals; and, of course, the Crown Agents distribute millions of stamps, and it would not be right for them to make a political decision.

§ BARONESS GAITSKELL
My Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness this question? Since when do the Government 1696 allow this kind of stamp, which is an example of the work of the late and unlamented Goebbels, to be distributed in this country?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, I understand that this stamp, whatever view may be taken of it, is an official issue by the Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt, and that it is available from several sources to the philatelic trade.

LORD JANNER
My Lords, may I again appeal to the noble Baroness to appreciate just what she is saying? Does she really mean to say that there is no method by which the distribution by the Crown Agents of a stamp, no matter how horrific or how pornographic it may be, can be stopped by the Government? Will she consult with other Ministers to see whether there is any other method by which this scandalous thing can be stopped?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, this is a very difficult question; but the previous Government resisted criticism of the Crown Agents for buying arms in behalf of the Nigerian Federal Government during the Biafra war, on the grounds that the Crown Agents were acting on the instructions of their principals.

§ LORD AVEBURY
My Lords, would the noble Baroness say whether it is possible for there to be a distribution by official agents of stamps which constitute a prima facie infringement of the Race Relations Act? Had she considered this aspect of the matter before making her reply?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
Yes, my Lords. As I have said, the Crown Agents distribute hundreds of millions of stamps a year, and they would be breaking away from what is called their non-political standing if they made judgments about particular stamps.

§ BARONESS GAITSKELL
My Lords, how far will the Government allow such stamps to be distributed? Can the noble Baroness envisage what this kind of stamp and this kind of trade in propaganda may lead to?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, as I said 1697 before, whatever one may think of this particular stamp, it is in fact the case that the Crown Agents do publish millions of stamps and, if they were put up as the political judge of what was right or was not right, I think we should be in even greater difficulty.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, since I think the noble Baroness quoted, in defence, what was said by the previous Administration—in fact, I think it is what I said in your Lordships' House—and while recognising the problem of the Crown Agents as agents for overseas Governments, but also recognising the scurrilous nature of this particular stamp, would the noble Baroness not agree that if some foreign country required the Crown Agents to produce a stamp of such a scurrilous nature directed against the Crown of this country, a very different situation would arise, not only for Her Majesty's Government but for Parliament? Would the noble Baroness look again at this matter to see whether something can be done with the Crown Agents, who are known by many to be of very great importance in the relationships between Her Majesty's Government and the Governments of other countries, to see that this particular issue is in fact withdrawn from circulation at least in this country?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, I recognise the problem put to me by the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, about a stamp commissioned by the Crown Agents. In fact, of course, this particular stamp was not made by the Crown Agents. They act as agents for the Arab Republic of Egypt; and at present there is not any way in which the Crown Agents can make a political decision on this or any other stamp. Indeed, I think a great deal of thought would be required as to whether it was desirable that they should be able to do so.

§ LORD BYERS
My Lords, I do not believe the House is asking that the Crown Agents should make a political decision; but may I ask the noble Baroness to look at this matter again, and particularly to consider it from the point of view that, if a stamp was circulated which was an incitement to racial violence, surely this Government 1698 would not be a party to seeing its distribution take place?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, the whole question of whether or not there should be further control upon the Crown Agents is being considered in connection with the Stevenson Report.

§ LORD PARGITER
My Lords, in view of the nature of the replies given to previous supplementary questions, could I have some indication of the nature of the activities undertaken by the Crown Agents which would warrant Government intervention?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, the Crown Agents act on behalf of over 300 principals of foreign or Commonwealth Governments; they are therefore in a separate category from a Government Department. The Stevenson Commission has made its Report, which is being considered by my right honourable friend the Minister for Overseas Development at this moment.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, while defending the right of the Crown Agents to that proper independence on which they entirely depend for their successful business, would not the noble Baroness agree that they are able to exercise judgment in these matters? If the Icelandic Government employed the Crown Agents to produce, for example, a stamp showing the noble Baroness torturing a cod or something like that, would she not expect them in fact to exercise discretion? I wonder whether the noble Baroness, having seen the stamp, might not consider drawing very strongly the views of this House to the attention of the Crown Agents?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, in answer to the first part of the supplementary question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, far from torturing cod I am only too keen to preserve and conserve it.
With regard to the second part, I have a copy of the stamp and I must say I regret its nature very much. I cannot remember many stamps of a similar character. I do not think that at the moment we have the power to do anything, I will certainly draw the feelings 1699 of the House to the attention of my right honourable friend.

§ LORD AVEBURY
My Lords, if a complaint were made to the Race Relations Board about the activities of the Crown Agents in distributing this stamp, would the noble Baroness not consider it correct to suspend its distribution pending consideration of that complaint by the Race Relations Board?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, the point at issue, which I think has been supported by all Governments and all Parties, is that the Crown Agents should, so far as possible, be able to respect the confidences of their principals.

LORD JANNER
My Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness to reply to one supplementary question that I put earlier? Will she consult the other Government Departments as to what steps within the legislation which exists at present, can be taken by them to stop this—and if the present legislation is not strong enough, to introduce some other legislation to do so? Does she realise that this is precisely the kind of thing that was published by the Stürmer organisation? I am certain that steps would have been taken at that time to prevent such a thing if it had been issued from the same office. Will she be good enough to consult with the other Departments over what can be done about this?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, over many years the Crown Agents have been distributors on a commercial basis of stamps of all kinds and of many countries. They have not concerned themselves with the political content, if any, of the stamps. I will, as I have said, draw the attention of my right honourable friend to the feelings of the House.

VISCOUNT MONCK
My Lords, in endeavouring to bring this question of design to a happy conclusion, is the noble Baroness aware that both in the Bishops' Bar and in this Chamber her hat has met with considerable admiration? I hope that she will wear it often in the future.

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, I must thank the noble Viscount.