ULSTER DEFENCE REGIMENT BILL [H.L.] (Hansard, 21 June 1973)

§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE (LORD CARRINGTON)
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.

LORD DUNLEATH
I apologise for being so boring and for "banging on" about this Bill, which is quite uncontroversial and one which I warmly support, but since the Second Reading last week another matter has arisen which I thought I should briefly mention. I think that there is much to be said for setting an eventual target of at least double the present strength of the U.D.R. Some people might say that this would be quite unrealistic; but if, out of a population of over 1½ million, half the male population are between the ages of, say, 18 and 50 (the age is 55 in the case of senior ranks) and therefore eligible to serve, this means that there are 375,000 potential members of the Regiment. If almost half of that number—say 175,000—are precluded from serving for medical reasons, or because of the nature of their work, or perhaps because their record does not stand up to scrutiny, it will still leave 200,000 people eligible to serve in the U.D.R.
Is it too much to ask that a mere 10 per cent. of this 200,000 should be asked to join the U.D.R. and should be accepted into it? I submit that it is not unreasonable and I suggest that Her Majesty's Government take steps to establish a higher target for the strength of the Regiment than exists at the moment. To do so, they should remove the financial disincentives to which I referred during the Second Reading of the Bill. I think it would be an error to look on 1470 the U.D.R. as being a temporary force established merely to cope with short-term emergencies. I do not doubt for a moment that Her Majesty's Government will honour the pledge they have given to maintain the Regular military presence in Northern Ireland for so long as the situation demands it, but the fact must be faced that 15,000 or so Regular soldiers cannot be committed indefinitely to Northern Ireland. They may have to be there for three years, or perhaps five or 10 years—although I hope that it will not be so long as that. But an alternative security force will eventually have to take their place.
Furthermore, if we in Northern Ireland are not seen to be taking adequate steps to make provision for future security it would not be surprising if the already damaging, "Bring the troops home" movement in England gained momentum. Peace will not come all of a sudden, nor will it be possible to say that terrorism has completely and finally been at any given moment ended. Even if the violence appears to have been suppressed, as we all hope it will be very soon, the terrorists will still be waiting until they think that the security measures have been sufficiently relaxed so that they can start up again.
Let there be no mistake about it, my Lords, a massive security force will have to be at hand in the future indefinitely in Northern Ireland and ready to be called upon whenever trouble moves. That is the long term. In the short term I would urge Her Majesty's Government to do all they can to bring the Regiment up to its existing establishment, not only because there are acute manpower shortages in certain areas but also to provide replacements for those who have done their three years' "hard labour", so to speak, in the Regiment and quite a few of whom are getting to the end of the upper age limit. I am thinking of men who served in the war and who decided to serve in the U.D.I. I apologise for taking up the time of the Committee.

§ LORD WINTERBOTTOM
I should like to make a point before the Minister replies. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, has missed the whole point. The problem we are facing is that both sexes are involved in the 1471 troubles in Northern Ireland, and at present we have the Ulster Defence Regiment which is unisex—men only. There are jobs which it is undesirable and unpleasant for men to undertake. Women are taking an active part in the opposition to the policies of Her Majesty's Government and it would be much better that women should deal with these women than that men should be asked to do so. As the Committee know, I have always advocated an increased role for women in the Armed Forces, but it is particularly important in Northern Ireland. That is why I support the clause, although I am not opposing what the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, has said. We are not arguing against a fully established Ulster Defence Regiment; we are simply saying that it needs some women in it.

LORD DUNLEATH
With respect, I take the noble Lord's point and I supported it on Second Reading, the clause designed to bring women into the Regiment. I am saying that while we are at it we ought to raise the strength of the male section as well.

§ LORD CARRINGTON
I do not think that the noble Lord, Lord Dunleath, misunderstood the position. I think he was rather ingeniously getting round the rules of order of your Lordships' House and raising a point which, strictly speaking, is outside the scope of the Bill. I think the Committee will forgive the noble Lord, if forgiveness be needed, because he, as your Lordships will know, has been a member of the Ulster Defence Regiment and has done a great deal for the Regiment. As we said during the Second Reading debate, those of us who know anything about the situation in Northern Ireland may pay our tribute to that Regiment. None of must underestimate the job that it has done and the job that it will do in the future.
The present strength of the Regiment is about 8,000 men. I agree with the noble Lord that it would be a good thing if we could get some more. The strength has been round about that figure for some little time. We have done what we can to improve and increase recruiting. The establishment of the Regiment which I can bear on the Vote of my Department is some 10,000 men, and we are not yet 1472 within sight of reaching that figure. When we get to the figure of 10,000 will be the time to make a decision whether or not we ought to increase the establishment. I hope that what the noble Lord has said, if it is published in Northern Ireland, will give a fillip to recruiting to the U.D.R. which he and I wish to see prosper and go from strength to strength.