§ 11.15 a.m.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government the average period required to enable a Minister serving the Department of Trade and Industry to reply to a letter from a Member of the House of Lords.
THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMAYLBN)My Lords, statistics of this kind are not readily available, but replies are given as soon as possible.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, in thanking my noble friend for that not very illuminating reply, may I also thank him for the arrival two days ago of a letter from the Department which was about two months overdue; and may I ask him whether he would not regard that as an unsatisfactory state of affairs? Can the noble Lord explain why the Department does not always acknowledge letters that it receives?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, with regard to the first part of the question, I entirely agree with my noble friend that it is an unsatisfactory state of affairs and I unreservedly apologise to him on behalf of the Department. With regard to the second point, it is normal to send acknowledgments, and here again I can only apologise to my noble friend that that was not done. But it was expected at that time that it would be possible to send a fairly quick reply. Unfortunately, that has not happened in this case. Every rule has its exceptions.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, in thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that this is the second incident of this kind during the present calendar year and the third incident within eighteen months? Would he not agree that if there were abroad a suspicion that the Executive may now treat Parliament with less respect than in former times, such suspicions are encouraged rather than diminished by incidents of this kind?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, if that were so I would agree with my noble friend.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell us whether the noble Earl, Lord Lauderdale, is in fact statistically unique? And if he is not, would he not thereby conclude that, when multiplied by all the letters sent to every Peer or Member of Parliament, there must be a falling off in the standards which we set when we were in Government in replying in these matters? And would he perhaps ask his noble friend who is responsible for the Civil Service to consider whether the time has come yet again, as has to happen every two or three years—at least with some Governments—when the Prime Minister might stimulate Ministers to look into this matter? The situation gets up to a certain standard and then slips again.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I think that my noble friend the Leader of the House is well aware that this is something which all Governments watch. There is inevitably the need to ensure that Parliament is properly treated in these matters; but the present Government have asked all Departments, as I have no doubt the past Government did, to ensure that replies are given as soon as possible. An examination was made in one Department at any rate, not long ago, and it was found that the average time for replies is between two and three weeks. But there are circumstances when it may even be justifiable to defer a reply, although I am quite certain that in such circumstances a holding reply ought to be sent.
§ LORD ROBBINSMy Lords, arising from the intensely interesting point made by the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition, can the noble Lord inform us where we can obtain statistical indications of the superior performance under the Labour Government.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, the noble Lord is perfectly right; statistics on this are not available. Obviously, if one has to seek statistics at any time, it takes an immense amount of time and trouble. The main thing is to have a common will on the part of Departments to reply as quickly as possible.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that then the statistical evidence was the fact that I knew the answers on the delays in different Departments, which does not appear to be the case with the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn? I do not mean this personally, but perhaps the Minister in charge of the Civil Service could make an investigation.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I am sure it would take a very great amount of time to reach an accurate statistical survey of that kind. Perhaps this Government may be a little more careful of the expenditure of public money in this regard than their predecessor.
§ LORD ROBERTHALLMy Lords, would the Minister not agree that the Department of Trade and Industry is now so large that it is quite impossible for one part of it to know what another part is doing, and is it not that overlarge size that is leading to these difficulties?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNNo, my Lords, I would not agree with the noble Lord in this matter. The Department is large; it is conscious of being large, and every possible step is taken to ensure that it acts as one. But the case to which my noble friend was referring was very much an inter-Departmental matter, and this was one of the reasons for delay.
§ LORD AVEBURYMy Lords, if the Minister thinks that the Department of Trade and Industry is the only one which is dilatory in replying to letters, may I inform him—
§ LORD AVEBURYMay I draw his attention—
§ LORD AVEBURYIs he aware that Home Office Ministers very seldom succeed in answering letters in under three weeks, which compares unfavourably with the estimate that he made of between two and three weeks on average?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I do not accept that the Department of Trade and Industry is dilatory in replying to letters. As I said, this was an exceptional 976 case to which my noble friend has drawn attention, and one which I very much regret.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that on this beautiful summer morning it hurts me to see members of the Front Bench opposite being knocked around the Chamber like this, and may I publicly say, "Thank you" to the Ministers opposite who have occasionally said that they would let me know by letter and, to my amazement, within 24 hours I have had a very lovely little reply? I do not think they deserve this present attack.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord. It is the fact that even although the reply is not little it very often goes out by return of post or very soon after.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that he himself is quite exceptional, and that we very much appreciate his help to us all the time?