HL Deb 14 June 1973 vol 343 cc901-5

7.15 p.m.

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, NORTHERN IRELAND OFFICE (LORD BELSTEAD) rose to move, That the Draft Salaries (Comptroller and Auditor-General and Others) (Northern Ireland) Order 1973, laid before the House on May 21, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, this Order is required to authorise an increase in salary for the holders of three posts in Northern Ireland and to provide for the authorisation of any future increases. Although three public offices are involved, those of the Comptroller and Auditor-General for Northern Ireland the Northern Ireland Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration and the Commissioner for Complaints, in fact only two people are involved because the posts of Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration and Commissioner for Complaints are held jointly at present.

The Order proposes an increase of £1,500 for all three posts; that is, from £7,875 to £9,375 per annum, with effect from January 1, 1972. This increase, the new salaries and the effective date, are all the same as those implemented by administrative arrangement last summer for Permanent Secretaries in the Northern Ireland Civil Service following acceptance by the Government of the Report of the Top Salaries Review Body—the Boyle Report. As long ago as July of last year specific written assurances were given to the holders of the posts covered by this Order that similar increases would be paid with effect from the same date as soon as the necessary Parliamentary approval had been obtained.

Before direct rule, such increases required a Resolution of the Northern Ireland Parliament, and but for Prorogation these increases would undoubtedly have been implemented about a year ago. As your Lordships will appreciate, direct rule was attended by constitutional complications and pressures on Parliamentary time which were sufficient to delay Parliamentary action on the contents of the Order until the late summer, when the breakdown in the tripartite talks on the economy led to the counter-inflation programme and an inevitable further brake on early action to authorise these increases. I can assure the House that the Order is in full accordance with the terms of the counter-inflation policy introduced by the Government last autumn. The relevant section is paragraph 13 of A Programme for Controlling Inflation: The First Stage (Cmnd. 5125), which states that in all cases where a settlement was reached before the standstill and the operative date for the increase was on or before November 6, 1972, the increase can be implemented.

Finally, the Order provides that future increases will be authorised by Order in Council made by the Governor of Northern Ireland after a draft has been approved by the Parliament of Northern Ireland. However, subject to Parliamentary approval when the new arrangements contained in the Constitution Bill which is now before another place are in force an Order would be made by the Secretary of State on a Resolution by the Northern Ireland Assembly. Those are the terms of the Order. I beg to move.

7.19 p.m.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I am sure I shall be corrected if I am wrong, but I think this is probably the first occasion on which the noble Lord, Lord Belstead, has spoken in his capacity as a Minister responsible for Northern Irish affairs and I should like to give him the warmest good wishes in his onerous responsibilities. He is following his noble friend Lord Windlesham, who quite clearly did a first-rate job there, and I can assure him that the House will be as sympathetic as possible in the light of the special circumstances there. Certainly I speak with the knowledge of this "over-crowded" House, and I am sure that those of us who are present wish him all good fortune.

He has a slightly awkward little Order to introduce and one one which I think noble Lords who have not actually studied it, or have not heard the arguments, will be rather mystified. First, there is no doubt that these two gentlemen—and although they appear to be three, as the noble Lord has explained one of them holds two posts—are to receive an increase which is to be back-dated no less than 18 months, to January 1, 1972. I think I am right in saying that.

One wonders how this has come about. The noble Lord obviously was advised not to go into too much detail on this matter, and he gave us a brief and accurate but not fully satisfactory explanation. None the less, I followed very closely what he said, and since—and I hope that he will not take this amiss—his statement followed the statement made in another place even more closely than was usual with his predecessor (although I noticed that some subtle words had been inserted here and there which made the drafting a little different) I had the advantage more or less of knowing in advance what he was going to say. That is no criticism of him. I would say, however, first of all that I have no doubt that these two salary increases should be made and should be back-dated. Undoubtedly we owe gratitude to the holders of these posts in the difficult circumstances of Northern Ireland where inevitably judgment can be sensitive in its political effect, though I have no doubt that they judged them on merit and impartially. Having said that I have no doubt that these payments should be made, and as one of these gentlemen I believe is to retire at a not too distant date, this has a particular effect on his pension.

It is one of the unfortunate effects of delays in payments, whether it was the staging by the previous Government or the greater mess of the present Government—and I do not expect the noble Lord, Lord Beistead, to comment on that—that with regard to Civil Service pay there is a real danger of officials losing not merely the pay increase that they should have but losing for ever the benefit in their pension. Happily, in this case that is not to happen, except of course that since January, 1972 (and after all their pay is related to Civil Service pay and Civil Service pay is based on comparability) they are still likely to be at a disadvantage.

The noble Lord argued, as did his honourable friend in another place, that it was ail right to make these increases under paragraph 13 of the Government's programme for controlling inflation. I suppose that it is possible to say in law that in all cases where settlement was reached before the standstill and the operative date of the increase was on or before November 6, that that increase can be implemented. Since they were informed, with the wisdom of foresight, as to the Government's likely pay freeze that it would be backdated, I think that the noble Lord and the Government are perfectly right in interpreting a phrase which does not appear to be directed to this kind of situation, but none the less should in equity apply; and I do not quarrel, except that I would hardly use the word "settlement" in regard to a pay increase to two particular individuals at this kind of level. Let me make it clear, and I repeat again, that this is no reflection on the individuals but merely the slight tangle which the Government have got into with regard to their pay policy. This is not a matter with which the noble Lord need concern himself very much. These remarks seemed to me to be relevant in this context. As I say, I have no doubt that these increases should be made and that the recipients richly deserve to get them even though they are rather belated.

LORD BELSTEAD

My Lords, may I just say "thank you" to the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton. He is a busy Member of your Lordships' House as Leader of the Opposition, with many other things to do, and he has taken time to reply to the moving of this Order this evening. I am very grateful to the noble Lord for doing that. I am also aware that the co-operation between political Parties in both Houses has hitherto made the task of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State that much lighter than it would otherwise have been.

I omitted to say when I moved the Order that one of the reasons for delay was that the Northern Ireland Advisory Commission studies all Orders which come to both Houses of Parliament. That was again another reason why we reached the time of the standstill on pay and prices, and of course it was then that standstill on pay and prices which led to the further delay in bringing the Order before Parliament. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, for having looked at the Order and for saying that he feels it should go through. I would bear out what he says about judgment being difficult for the Parliamentary Commissioner and the Commissioner for Complaints. There are two Reports extant for 1972 and they give one an idea of some of the difficulties involved in their offices.

Before I sit down perhaps it is worth saying that the Parliamentary Commissioner is giving very good value for money. He has now managed to see ahead as to what he thinks his workload will be, and I noticed from his Report that he has now reduced his staff by not very far off 50 per cent. from the time he began operations in 1969. I shall accept the invitation given by the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, and not comment on Civil Service pay. In this case this Order avoids the pension difficulty which the noble Lord rightly said that we might be heading towards. It is relevant to the pay and prices policy, and I hope that the House will now agree to pass this Order.