§ 2.56 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government, with regard to the forthcoming Congress of the Association of Commonwealth Universities in Edinburgh next month and the reported demand by Tanzania, Kenya and Uganda that the University of Rhodesia should be banned, what action (since they claim continuing responsibility for Rhodesia) they are taking to oppose this injustice towards the multi-racial University of Rhodesia.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)My Lords, the University of Rhodesia have informed the Associa- 637 tion of Commonwealth Universities that they have withdrawn their delegation to this Conference. We regret that this has been necessary, because we believe that multi-racial institutions in Rhodesia should be encouraged. Attendance at the Conference is entirely a matter for the Association.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, arising out of that reply may I ask the Minister—since perhaps I failed to use the correct emphasis—whether she is able to Rive a categorical affirmation that the University of Rhodesia is multi-racial in the fullest sense? May I also ask whether the Minister is aware that when I was in Rhodesia this Spring, finding myself in a conversation, unsought, with a high member of the Faculty, I learned for the first time the extent to which the University is multi-racial, not only domestically but also internationally, in that among the student population there is a very large proportion of students from a variety of countries, because the Faculty and the Diploma are so highly regarded abroad?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I confirm that the University of Rhodesia is entirely multi-racial.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, cannot this Association appreciate that it is generally far better to allow those who threaten boycott to withdraw? Would it not have been far better for the Association to have followed the excellent example of the Wimbledon Tennis Club?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I am sure that the Association of Commonwealth Universities will take note of what my noble friend has said. Of course it is not for Her Majesty's Government to take part in the internal affairs of this Association.
§ LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURYMy Lords, can my noble friend say why the University of Rhodesia withdrew their application to attend?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I understand there were several countries who said that they themselves would withdraw, unless 638 the universities in South Africa and Rhodesia withdrew.
§ BARONESS GAITSKELLMy Lords, although I personally deplore this banning of delegates either from racialist countries or from authoritarian countries, is it not true to say that banning has some effect on some racialist countries, particularly South Africa, and especially in sport?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I think there is another view, that where an institution is generally multi-racial it should be encouraged.
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that many of us who do not always share the views of the noble Lord, Lord Barnby, regret that the University of Rhodesia will not be present, since the exchange of ideas and ideals is of particular importance and especially so in education?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I would agree with the noble Baroness.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, in view of my noble friend's statement that she has no status in suggesting anything to Rhodesia, how does she justify the view that we govern the country?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I think that the Question I was asked was whether Her Majesty's Government had any responsibility for the internal affairs of the Association of Commonwealth Universities. I said that we had no responsibility. We have responsibility for Rhodesia in a technical sense, but we do not have responsibility for the Association of Commonwealth Universities.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, would not the noble Baroness agree that all honour is due to the devoted anti-apartheid fighters still remaining in Rhodesia and in South Africa, in line with the honorary degree recently conferred by the University of Oxford on Mrs. Helen Suzman? Can she say whether the distinguished Vice-Chancellor of the multi-racial university of Cape Town, Sir Richard Luyt, has been allowed to attend the Edinburgh conference?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, so far as Her Majesty's Government are concerned, we informed the Association of Commonwealth Universities that we would admit the proposed multi-racial delegates to this country. That is as far as our responsibility goes. It is the University's decision to withdraw from the conference.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, will Her Majesty's Government adhere firmly to that policy in spite of any opposition from any other African sources?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEYes, my Lords. We have frequently given travel facilities to members of universities, European and African, when they wished to travel on academic business; and we shall continue to do so.
§ LORD HANKEYMy Lords, in view of the excellent work done by the Association of Commonwealth Universities, may we take it that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is giving all the help in its power to resolve such regrettable difficulties when they occur?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, we have given travel facilities for those who wish to attend; but if circumstances arose—as they did in this case—whereby these universities sought to withdraw their applications, there is nothing we can do to prevent it.
§ LORD ANNANMy Lords, would the noble Baroness agree that these regrettable withdrawals are influenced by the fact that in universities the whole question of racial relationships and apartheid is in the minds of many of the academic staff and of the students, comparable to what they would have felt in the 'thirties about the persecution of Jews by the Nazis, and that these matters necessarily colour the views which other universities in the Commonwealth, particularly those in Africa, hold on this subject?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, it may be that other universities in other Commonwealth countries have the feelings described by the noble Lord, but the fact remains that the university which is the subject of this Question is multi-racial and also has frequently been against the policy of the Rhodesian régime.
§ LORD ANNANMy Lords, I agree. While I entirely accept what the noble Baroness has said and deeply regret that this multi-racial university is not going to be present at this conference, is it not nevertheless the fact that the policy of the illegal Government in that country necessarily inflames opinion in other parts of the world?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR of BELHELVIEYes, my Lords, but it does little to encourage those within a multi-racial university who are trying their best to overcome the prejudices in question.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, is it the view of Her Majesty's Government that the motive behind Uganda's demands was liberalism?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I did not mention Uganda. I said that several countries have made their views known.
§ LORD CONESFORDIt is mentioned in the Question.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, that may be so.