§ 7.11 p.m.
§ LORD BELSTEAD rose to move, That the Draft Appropriation (No. 2) (Northern Ireland) Order 1973, laid before the House on June 12, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, the purpose of this Order is to authorise the issue from the Northern Ireland Consolidated Fund of sums to meet the balance of the Estimates for 1973–74, and three amounts which arose as ex- 722 cess Votes in the 1971–72 financial year, which are shown in Part I of Schedule (B) and which have been considered and cleared by the Public Accounts Committee at Westminster. The total amount of the Estimates for 1973–74 is £561,551,000, of which £203,630,000 was appropriated on account under the Appropriation Order which was agreed to in this House on April 10 last. I should mention that the Estimates were compiled some six months ago and do not reflect any changes which will arise out of the revised constitutional proposals for Northern Ireland which we have been debating this afternoon. However, the details of the Estimates are as set out in the Order and in the Estimates Volume, which is in the Printed Paper Office. Comparison with the figures for 1972–73 shows that this year's total is some £95 million higher than last year's, but of this approximately £60 million results from local government reorganisation. So that this sum represents purely a transfer of expenditure within the public sector. This Order has also been fully debated in another place. Perhaps it is the wish of the House that I say no more, but I shall be happy to answer any questions. My Lords, I beg to move.
§ Moved, That the Draft Appropriation (No. 2) (Northern Ireland) Order 1973, laid before the House on June 12, be approved.—(Lord Belstead.)
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, this is a matter which would not normally be debated in your Lordships' House at all. Clearly, it provides an opportunity for querying certain aspects of expenditure and could give rise to important discussions on the conduct of affairs in Northern Ireland. But unless any of our Northern Irish colleagues who know the situation wish to join in, I do not see very much point in my raising matters on this Order. But I should like to ask the noble Lord this question, and if he thinks it is too hypothetical I shall not press him on it. It may well be that this is the last time that we shall see a Draft Appropriation Order of this size. This is almost the equivalent of a Budget and if the Assembly and our work earlier in the day are successful, many of these matters will not come before Parliament but will be dealt with in the Northern Ireland 723 Assembly. It may be that the noble Lord is not in a position to answer, and he may prefer to think about it and tell us about it on another day—it may even be at a later stage of the Northern Ireland Constitution Bill—but I should like to be told something about the control of finance from the Parliamentary end. This is a matter which has been dealt with in another place and it is not particularly appropriate for us—not because of a lack of interest, but because of our general role in the Lords—to go deeply into it.
§ LORD BELSTEADMy Lords, I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, is right. An Order of this size will not be seen again at Westminster, because although a Consolidated Fund of Northern Ireland will continue under the Constitution Bill, it will of course be considered in the Northern Ireland Assembly. If, by chance, I have made a mistake in answering the question in that way, I shall attempt to put it right when the House next considers Northern Ireland business on Monday of next week. But I am fairly sure that the noble Lord is right and that my answer is correct.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.