§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, as the Minister without Portfolio stated on June 7 last (Hansard col. 187) that he considered it right to make the distinction between an industry which is entirely nationalised and a statutory corporation operating in competition with other undertakings in the same field, and as the nationalised steel industry, while coming into the latter category, has consumers' points of view referred to it by the British Iron and Steel Consumers' Council, they will support the setting up of a similar independent body by which consumers' points of view may be referred to the nationalised airlines.
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)My Lords, I cannot accept that analogy, but the noble Baroness will, I trust be glad to hear that I understand that the Civil Aviation Authority has it in mind to set up an airline users' advisory body and will shortly be consulting the various interests that are concerned.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, while being very glad that we are at last making this progress, may I ask the Minister whether he realises that the House was also unable to accept his analogy on June 7, when he explained to us that the nationalised airline, British Airways, 378 was not a nationalised industry? We found that quite incredible. But, moving on from that, may I ask the Minister whether he thinks we might soon have a little more news about this Airline Users' National Council and whether perhaps some of us in this House who have taken a great interest might have the chance of being consulted about the setting up of that body?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, it is now for the Civil Aviation Authority to go on with the preparation of their plans in consultation with the various bodies and, I am sure, with individuals as well, and I would respectfully suggest to the noble Baroness that the right place for her to make her representations is to the Civil Aviation Authority.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that it would have saved this House a lot of time if the Government had accepted the proposals made at the time the Bill went through, to have this power to receive complaints or representations from consumers direct to the C.A.B.? Would he say that what is envisaged is something similar to what was the case with the Air Transport Licensing Board?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNNot exactly, my Lords. I think this would be much more a users' body than one covering all concerned with civil aviation.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, if the noble Lord will look at the position under the Air Transport Licensing Board he will see that they did have power and they were open to receive representations; and is he aware that this could be of some help to the licensing authority, in so far as they have some indication from the consumer as to whether or not the particular operators are providing a reasonable service? That could be a useful piece of marketing research. As my noble friend has asked, could the Minister give us an indication of the sort of way in which the C.A.B. propose to implement this undertaking?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I am afraid I cannot do that at the present time. It is for them to prepare the scheme. I quite understand the noble Lord's point, but the fact remains that, as he knows, the Air Transport Licensing Board did not attract many consumers' 379 representations. That is perhaps one of the reasons why it has been necessary to find the means of doing so.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that I do not think I can entirely agree with my noble friend the Chief Whip on my own Front Bench? Is the Minister aware that I want something much more effective from the consumer's point of view than I think the other organisation referred to was able to be? Would the noble Lord agree that the Airline Users' National Council should have real teeth and should be able to deal both with consumers' suggestions and with complaints in so far as the nationalised air industry is concerned?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I hope the noble Baroness will help us and that something effective will be realised; but once again I must say that this is really a matter for the Civil Aviation Authority and I do not think it would be right for me to express a personal opinion on it.