HL Deb 25 January 1973 vol 338 cc247-9
VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many aircraft the British Steel Corporation has, and of what types.

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)

My Lords, I am advised that the British Steel Corporation owns four aircraft—two Cessna 421s and two Hawker Siddeley 125s.

VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask whether he would agree that if we consider the loss as shown in the yearly published accounts of the British Steel Corporation (I understand that the last accounts showed a loss of roughly £100 million) surely an area where some economy might be made is in aircraft? May I further ask the Minister whether, as there are extensive British air services covering the world and as the British taxpayer has from time to time had to make good the deficits of some of those air services, it is necessary for the British Steel Corporation to have four aircraft? I can understand their having one aircraft, but is it necessary for them to have four?

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, may I appeal to the Leader of the House, if he is here, to ask that when Questions are put they should not be made an occasion of highly contentious debating?

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)

My Lords, the Leader of the House is here. I must say that I have noticed from time to time that Questions are made the subject of rather contentious debating. But, on the whole, I entirely agree with the Leader of the Opposition. My noble friend was over-egging the pudding a little.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, may I say to my noble friend that the question of whether the British Steel Corporation should have its own aircraft is a matter which it has to judge for itself in relation to the functions that it has to perform, in order to see that it can perform those functions most efficiently and economically. If it thinks it is desirable for those purposes to have aircraft, there is no reason why it should not have them.

LORD BYERS

My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that to consider aircraft in industry to-day as a luxury is quite out of date?

LORD DRUMALBYN

Yes, my Lords. I am told that something like 64 companies in this country either own or operate aircraft for themselves.

VISCOUNT ADDISON

My Lords, can the noble Lord say how this number of aircraft compares with the number owned by Imperial Chemical Industries, or Shell?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I have some figures here. This number is in line with what other companies have in relation to their capital, their function and the distribution of their plants.

LORD HARVEY OF PRESTBURY

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that to some of us, at any rate, it is encouraging that the British Steel Corporation are as far-sighted as this? Surely if they are going to be progressive they have to use aircraft in the modern way of trading.

LORD DRUMALBYN

I quite agree, my Lords. I am glad that two out of the four aircraft they own are British.

LORD DOUGLASS OF CLEVELAND

My Lords, as the noble Viscount is using the question of the cost of the aircraft in his argument, can he follow that successfully without talking about the prices of steel, which are controlled by the Government?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, that was something of a diversion, if I may say so, on the part of my noble friend. I should not like to follow that.

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