HOURS AT SEA: IMPLEMENTATION OF AGREEMENT (Hansard, 28 February 1973)

§ LORD SHINWELL
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

THE EARL OF GOWRIE
My Lords, the agreement was made before the standstill for implementation on January 1, 1973, and under the proposals in Cmnd. 5205 the operative date may now be April 1 or the end of the standstill, whichever is sooner.

§ LORD SHINWELL
My Lords, I am grateful for that reply because it is much more satisfactory than I had expected, and that is very unusual. Is the noble Earl aware that the navigating officers have been very disappointed because of the delay, and particularly because junior officers serving on ocean-going ships are working excessively long hours, which militates against safety?

THE EARL OF GOWRIE
My Lords, may I thank the noble Lord for the kind words that he has had to say to me, especially since I am somewhat wanting in support from my own side. The officers' case was of course viewed with sympathy, but the noble Lord will be aware that there was an agreement to improve terms and conditions of employment during, the standstill and no exceptions could be made.

§ LORD SHINWELL
My Lords, since the Government Front Bench opposite is denuded of Peers, may I ask the noble 622 Earl whether it would be of any advantage if some of my noble friends on these Benches went to sit on the opposite side? We should get the same answers anyway.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, before the noble Earl replies, I wonder whether we ought in fact to consider adjourning the House. We have four Members of the Government, and I think I detected one or two more Conservatives, present. It is of course a great satisfaction that the Prime Minister is addressing the Independent Unionist Peers, and I am sure we all welcome him from another place, but I must say that I think the situation here is quite unprecedented. The only reason we have any Ministers here is that they are having to answer Questions and because the noble and learned Lord the Lord Chancellor shows his usual courtesy. But when I look at the serried ranks of the Labour Party, the Liberal Party, and the Cross-Benches, I wonder whether we can be told when the Conservative Party are likely to join us. Or have they decided that they so dislike the Government's new Green Paper that they had better keep away until the Prime Minister has persuaded them that it is right to support it? Who, in fact, is now leading for the Government? Apart from the Lord Chancellor, I think the noble Baroness, Lady Tweedsmuir of Belhelvie, is the senior Minister.

§ LORD BYERS
My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether this is some new form of industrial action?

§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)
My Lords, perhaps I should answer the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, as at the moment I appear to be the most senior Minister on the Front Bench. I would only say to the noble Lord that he will be aware that my noble friends are always the most assiduous attenders in this House, and he will observe from the number of speakers for the debate on the need for a national energy plan how many will be present. No doubt they feel that the Answers to the Questions before the debate will be so satisfactory that there is no need to attend.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, after a while this ceases to be just a joke, 623 unless noble Lords opposite regard this House as a joke. Question Time is important and contributions come from the other side of the House. There are many issues on which we do not take a Party line. I find it quite inconceivable that a distinguished visitor to our House should come at a time when the House ought to be sitting. One can imagine the reaction in another place if something like this happened. Although we do not wish to make personal remarks, I am bound to say—and this is no reflection on the Prime Minister; I am sure it is very delightful for us to have him with us and, as I said, he may persuade some noble Lords to be sensible on occasion and stop voting against the Government—that it really is not good enough, and noble Lords ought not to think that this is purely a demonstration for fun.

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, I hope I did not in any way imply—and I am sure I did not—that there is any question of a joke in this matter. The fact remains that there is a very important meeting and there are three Questions down, and if my noble friends feel confident that they will be satisfactorily answered they are quite entitled not to enter this Chamber until the debate on the national energy plan. I would say once again, on their behalf, that they are the most assiduous attenders in this House.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, I would only ask the noble Baroness to read the Writ and the Summons that applies to all noble Lords.

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, it also remains a fact, does it not, as the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, will realise, that there are occasions when many Members of the noble Lord's own Party cannot, for one reason or another, attend the House and no one questions that fact?

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, we do not, however, absent ourselves en masse.

§ LORD BLYTON
My Lords, is the Minister aware that perhaps the Back-Bench Lords of the Conservative Party who are missing will knock some sense into the Prime Minister, in order to try 624 to get some credibility and some peace with the trade unions?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, I am sure it will be a most useful meeting for everybody concerned.

§ LORD SHINWELL
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware (this was said to me in confidence but I had to take note of it) that the noble Lord the Leader suggested that, as the Front Bench opposite is denuded of its senior Members, I might go and sit there, and I assured him that I did not think I should be of very much help?

§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE
My Lords, I must thank the noble Lord for his offer. I am sure we would much welcome him.