HL Deb 26 February 1973 vol 339 cc358-60

2.40 p.m.

LORD ORR-EWING

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will initiate discussions with the Civil Air Authorities in other E.E.C. countries with a view to negotiating agreement that air fares within the Common Market should henceforward be charged, not at current IATA rates, but at the rates normally charged on internal or cabotage routes.

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)

My Lords, this is one of a number of matters in the civil aviation field which will require examination when the Council of Ministers comes to consider whether the transport title of the Treaty should apply to civil aviation. In the meantime, it would be premature to initiate discussions on specific aspects such as the relative level of internal and inter-State air fares.

LORD ORR-EWING

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that it really is rather an anomaly that a London to Edinburgh flight costs £23.10 economy class whereas a London to Bonn flight of the same duration costs £38.80? Now we are part of the Common Market, could we not take some initiative in trying to solve these problems, treating these short international flights like internal flights, not only on price structure but also on the time required to report before the flight goes? It is not sensible to report 45 minutes early for a one hour flight; 15 minutes would be much more acceptable in this day and age.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I have a great deal of sympathy with what my noble friend has said, although I am not sure that the second part really relates to the Question he has asked. As to what he said on the comparison between fares, there is, of course, no common rate per mile for internal services, either in this country or elsewhere. The charge depends on a number of factors, including the length of the journey, the competitive situation and the like. I would repeat that the transport title of the Treaty of Rome is not yet applied to civil aviation, but that in June, 1972, the Commission did initiate a proposal for a study and this has been referred for an Opinion to the European Parliament and to the Economic and Social Committee.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, with all due respect to the noble Lord but with rather less to those who drafted his original Answer, may I ask whether he is aware that the verbiage in the original Answer was rather difficult to unravel? Would he agree that, if the Treaty of Rome is to mean anything, then the Economic Community ought to be treated as one area for cabotage purposes? Would he see what can be done to speed up that desirable end?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, perhaps I may remind the noble Lord of the actual wording of Article 84(2): The Council may, acting unanimously, decide whether, to what extent and by what procedure appropriate provisions may be laid down for sea and air transport. The Council has never yet considered this matter.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that all I am asking is that they should consider it, and fairly quickly?

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, did the noble Lord mean kilograms or pounds?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I am at a loss to know to what the noble Lord is referring.

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, I think that the noble Lord referred to a "rate per pound".

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, "rate per mile".

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, then presumably he meant kilometres?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, miles here so far; kilometres elsewhere.

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, do not the Government consider themselves at the moment to be elsewhere?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, the Government are "with it", and very much on the spot.