§ LORD KINGS NORTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they can state their policy for the development of high-speed surface transport systems such as the tracked hovercraft.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (LORD SANDFORD)My Lords, in respect of the United Kingdom market, it is considered that the demand for high-speed surface transport could be satisfied by the high-speed diesel train and the advanced passenger train until well into the 1980s. The Government have taken these considerations into account in deciding that they should not give financial support to work on the tracked-hovercraft project in its present form. The Government have, however, made provision for continuing research and development of the linear motor for propulsion and for exploratory research on magnetic suspension of vehicles for urban and inter-urban transport.
§ LORD KINGS NORTONMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that it is, like the Written Answer which was given in another place yesterday and which I think most of us have read, somewhat unimaginative and pays no attention to the great export potential that exists in high-speed transport systems? Furthermore, if we are to exploit those systems to the full, is the Minister aware that we shall have to maintain in good condition the tracked hovercraft experimental station at Earith? Finally, it is some comfort to know that the linear motor is to be continued, but are the Government aware that this linear motor in its 1683 latest form is years ahead of any of its competitors and provides this country with a tremendous commercial asset? That there should be in that one simple electrical machine propulsion, levitation and guidance is unique among all the linear motors in the world. May I ask the Government whether they will consider giving this project the utmost support and exploitation?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, there is a great deal in what the noble Lord says, but the final part of my Answer indicated quite clearly that research and development are continuing on the linear motor and magnetic suspension, but not on the whole system in its present form. I am sure your Lordships appreciate that there comes a moment in a research and development programme such as this where the Government, with the interest of the taxpayers' money in mind, have to consider whether there is a practical application ready for the programme at the particular moment in time.
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, while supporting the Government in their support of the advanced passenger train development, may I ask whether they are in fact assisting in that development, which clearly is suitable to this country having regard to the fact that we already have the tracks available, with slight modification, to accommodate such speedy travel?
§ LORD SANDFORDYes, my Lords; that is certainly a major consideration in this decision. The high-speed diesel train is about to start trials, and prototype trains based on the advanced passenger train system will be available probably in 1975, in the first instance using electric propulsion. Because both of these trains use existing track they seem to have considerable practical advantages.
§ LORD ORR-EWINGMy Lords, can the Minister say how much money is being allowed annually for the development of the linear motor hovertrain?—because if this is not adequate we shall fall behind the rest of the world. As the noble Lord, Lord Kings Norton, has said, this is a very promising development indeed.
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, these are early days to answer that question 1684 categorically, but the present intention is about £¼ million.
§ LORD BURNTWOODMy Lords, does the Minister's first reply mean that somewhere in the 1980s, and using existing principles of traction, our inter-urban expresses will begin to compete with the performance given by the existing Japanese expresses?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I would rather not answer that question without notice.
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, are the Government afraid of another Concorde with the hover train; and, if so, would they accept that the House probably understands their fears very well? But have we not a transport debate on March 7, and would the Government be able to tell us all about it at that time and enable the House to debate it fully?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I think that the debate on the Motion in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Popplewell, will provide us with an admirable opportunity of considering more fully these and many other related matters.
§ LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURYMy Lords, could my noble friend say what speeds are involved in these various cases?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, the high-speed diesel train is designed to reach maximum speeds of about 125 m.p.h.; the A.P.T., in the first instance, 155 m.p.h.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord, as he did not answer the last part of the question of the noble Lord, Lord Kings Norton, about existing test facilities? Are they to be maintained, or not?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, that is under consideration.
§ LORD KINGS NORTONMy Lords, is the Minister aware, in connection with his penultimate answer, that it is possible now to design a vehicle propelled by linear motor which would travel at 300 m.p.h.?
§ LORD SANDFORDYes, my Lords, but the maximum speed achieved so far is 107 m.p.h.
LORD REAMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is satisfied, with 1685 these very high, new speeds envisaged of 150 m.p.h., that the present small flange on the wheels of our present trains does not constitute considerable danger, and is it going to be altered?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, personally I do not contemplate this prospect of higher speeds with much relish.