§ 2.58 p.m.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of a statement in the Investors Review of January 12, 1973, that solely in consequence of financial support to the extent of £20 million made available by Crown Agents (some of it possibly since the Stevenson Report) private operators have made a profit of £20 million based upon a mere initial capital of £24,500 and, if this is so, whether they would agree that this action on the part of Crown Agents has made a mockery of the pay and prices policy; and whether Her Majesty's Government are able to restrain Crown Agents from pursuing 840 financial practices which run counter to Government economic policy.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELFIELVIE)My Lords, credit up to £20 million was made available by the Crown Agents to the company mentioned in the Investors Review, which also secured large loans from other sources. When the company was sold, the price was not disclosed. The Crown Agents' investment will secure resources to sustain services provided to overseas countries, and is subject to taxation. The Crown Agents are subject to the Government's economic policy.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her Answer to my Question though I hardly see how the latter part of the Answer relates to the Question that I addressed to her. As a supplementary, I should like to ask whether or not the Minister would agree that applying Crown Agents' funds to speculative activities at a time when such funds would not be available through traditional sources was in keeping with the Government's economic policy at that time.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR or BELHELVIEMy Lords, there is no legal constraint on the kind of transaction described in the Question between a willing buyer and a willing seller.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, if there is no legal constraint, may I ask whether there is not some direction from the Government to ensure that organisations which come under their influence at least conduct themselves in such a way as to be of assistance to the Government's general economic policy, rather than that they should pursue policies which are detrimental to the best interests of the nation?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, the fact remains that this particular transaction was of course of benefit, by backing up the services which the Crown Agents give to their principals overseas.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, could the noble Baroness say who received benefit, apare from the shareholders of this company; and could she also explain 841 how it is that, if a loan was made by Crown Agents, a sale took place without the Crown Agents either being informed or being aware of it?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I never said that the Crown Agents were not aware of the sale. Indeed, there was a report to the effect that the particular property had been sold.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness whether she refutes the statement contained in the Question: that private operators made vast profits estimated at £20 million? Does she refute that? If she does not, can she say whether it is consistent with the Goverment's policy of anti-inflation?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, as I said in my reply, the sum was not disclosed when the sale was made.
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, may we assume from the replies of the noble Baroness that Her Majesty's Government feel no sense of disquiet at all about such operations by the Crown Agents?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR or BELHELVIENo, my Lords; the Crown Agents have a very high reputation in this country and overseas. The purpose of their investments, as I sought to explain, was to give them backing for the services which, I believe, are widely welcomed in many countries.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, I understand from the Answer that the total sum was not disclosed. How does it come about that the Investors Review was in possession of information which indicated this profit and further went on to state that an amount of £65 million of gross assets did not come into the profit computation that was indicated originally?—showing a profit that was utterly fantastic and one which I thought would lead the Government themselves, having some influence upon the Crown Agents, to have a measure of interest in their activities.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, as I have said, the total sale price was not disclosed. Therefore, I am not in a position to know how the Investors Review came to 842 assess their particular figure; but the fact remains that there are problems of property and of land and that the question of pay and prices is one of the broad subjects which will be under discussion this afternoon.
§ LORD HOYMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the Crown Agents are responsible to the Public Accounts Committee in another place? If the transactions which have been suggested in this Question have taken place, have they not to report the results of these transactions to the Houses of Parliament through the Public Accounts Committee?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, the fact is that the Crown Agents are responsible primarily to their principals overseas, but they also have to take into account Government policy. It is a fact that there is no restraint on a transaction between a willing buyer and a willing seller.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, I apologise for pressing this matter unduly; but may I ask whether or not the traditional finance houses, including the Bank of England, have indicated at any time their concern at the activities of the Crown Agents in this particular field?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, the Crown Agents were carrying out, and have been carrying out over a period of years, perfectly straightforward investment. This it was their duty to do.