§ LORD LLOYD OF KILGERRANMy Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Tanlaw, who has asked me to speak for him, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in his name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider an immediate increase in the minimum standard requirements for thermal insulation by the building industry in order that United Kingdom regulations are equivalent at least to the standards operative within the E.E.C.
§ BARONESS YOUNGMy Lords, improvements in the thermal insulation requirements for new houses are in prospect and consultations with the various interests concerned will shortly begin. Only limited action is possible under the existing powers of the Public Health Acts, which do not allow regulations to be made with the object of conserving fuel or of improving comfort, but only the conformity with the general objects of those Acts; namely, health and safety. This restriction will be removed in building regulations provisions of the Health and Safety at Work Bill, to be introduced in the new year. In deciding how to use these powers we shall take into account all relevant information and experience, including the varied practice of our partners in the E.E.C.
§ LORD LLOYD OF KILGERRANMy Lords, in thanking the noble Baroness for 6 her reply, may I ask whether she does not think it unsatisfactory, as appears from all the technical information relating to heating insulation available to my noble colleague, Lord Tanlaw, that this country seems to have the lowest record regarding insulation of all the countries of the E.E.C.?
§ BARONESS YOUNGMy Lords, the standard requirements in England and Wales are slightly lower than those in Scotland. They are, in fact, similar to those in Holland. The standards in France and Germany are slightly higher than those in Holland, and they are higher still in Denmark. So there is considerable variation, and one of the factors that must be taken into account is the climate.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say whether the noble Lord, Lord Lloyd of Kilgerran, who put the Question on behalf of his noble friend had permission to put the supplementary question?
§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (LORD WINDLESHAM)My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend, Lady Young, I would say that the two go together.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, does the noble Baroness realise that, whereas the regulations on the Continent requiring a certain degree of heating insulation may not be all that much higher than our own, in practice, heating insulation used on the Continent is vastly greater? When considering this matter, will her Department take into account what is in fact done on the Continent and not what the regulations necessarily may be?
§ BARONESS YOUNGMy Lords, I should like to assure the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, that my right honourable friend, the Minister for Housing and Construction, is in consultations at the moment with a view to looking at higher standards of thermal insulation in new houses.
§ LORD WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, will the noble Baroness agree that, whatever the regulations may be, there is little doubt that our regulations are lower than those in other comparable countries? Would she agree that the actual facts 7 are that in this country we use approximately 2½ times as much energy to heat a given space as they do in Scandinavia?
§ BARONESS YOUNGMy Lords, I noted what the noble Lord said about this matter. I think I have said enough to indicate that we are considering higher standards in this country.
VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDSMy Lords, when the noble Baroness compares the regulations and the climates of ourselves and France is she really saying that the climate of France is colder than the climate here?
§ BARONESS YOUNGMy Lords, I indicated the varying standards within the E.E.C., and I also indicated that climatic conditions vary. No doubt it is colder in some parts of France than in this country.