HL Deb 13 December 1973 vol 347 cc1271-3
BARONESS MASHAM OF ILTON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether from April 1, 1974, they will make local education authorities responsible for the employment (including part-time employment) in special schools of persons trained in professions ancillary to medicine (e.g., physiotherapists and speech therapists).

THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)

No, my Lords. From April 1, 1974, such persons will be employed by Area Health Authorities, who will be required to ensure that such staff continue to be available to special schools.

BARONESS MASHAM OF ILTON

My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that Answer, can he give some assurance that the health authorities will take the special schools as priority cases because does he not think that perhaps hospitals will be more of a priority? May I also ask whether the noble Lord does not think that the education committees might not understand staff who have their own children and want to work part-time in special schools?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, certainly we recognise the importance of mantaining the existing services in special schools and through the collaboration arrangements we shall ensure that the health authorities are sensitive to the needs of schools and work closely with the local health committees.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, is the Minister quite sure that this will be the case, in view of the grave shortage of physiotherapists and speech therapists and, I think, of all those people who occupy posts which are ancillary to medicine?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, the Question is mainly directed to what happens on the transfer, when we hope that services will continue much as they are at present. I recognise that there are shortages in all these categories and, as the noble Baroness will be aware, the Quirk Report, relating to speech therapists, has recently been published. We have also a working party which has just reported on the development of services of that sort.

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, does the noble Lord's answer mean that the Government are prepared to give special consideration to departments of speech therapy in universities?—because this is rather an important matter for the future training of such people.

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, my right honourable friend is hoping to make a statement on the Government's attitude to the Quirk Report before the end of this month.

THE EARL OF SWINTON

My Lords, does the noble Lord not think it is slightly anomalous that, say, in a special school you may have 25 members of staff of all kinds, from teachers to caretakers, being employed by the local authority, with, at the same time, perhaps three members of the staff—say, two nurses and a physiotherapist—being employed by the Area Health Authority although they are in fact working full-time in that school?

LORD ABERDARE

No, my Lords, this is one of the steps which is being taken towards the evolution of a comprehensive child health service. It applies to doctors and nurses and, equally, to physiotherapists and speech therapists.

LORD ELTON

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us how many staffs in the special schools are in the categories which will be transferred from one employer to another? Can he also say what specific advantages will accrue to them, to the administrators who run the schemes and to the children who, categorically, are by far the most important people under consideration?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I cannot give my noble friend the figures he asks for without notice, but I entirely accept what he said at the end—that the children are the most important people. We believe that establishing a comprehensive child health service will be in the best interests of the children. As my noble friend may know, Professor Court is to chair a committee to advise on the longer-term development of child health services for children of all ages, including handicapped children.

THE EARL OF SWINTON

My Lords, I am sorry to ask the noble Lord another question, but in the case of a local education authority thinking that an excellent nurse or physio-therapist should be employed in a special school and the Area Health Authority deciding they could not provide that, would the noble Lord say who could give the final decision?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, these are matters for the Joint Consultative Committee, provided for in the National Health Service Act.

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