§ 2.36 p.m.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have approached the Government of Syria or the United Nations on the return of war prisoners who were captured in the recent conflict and the 1967 war.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, we have been in touch with the Syrian Government on a number of occasions, and have made known our view that all parties to the conflict should honour their obligations under the Geneva Conventions unconditionally. However, the Syrian authorities have insisted on certain conditions, including action by Israel in connection with the Fourth Geneva Convention. We have asked the Israelis to clarify their attitude to this Convention.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that according to Press reports the only occasion on which our Ambassador asked the Syrian Government a question about the repatriation of prisoners was on November 12, and that since then, so far as I am aware, there has been no further consultation? Have Her Majesty's Government made representations to the United Nations and to the International Red Cross about this subject?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, we feel that the best method of approaching this matter is for Governments to deal with Governments direct or through the International Red Cross. Her Majesty's Government take the view that it would be 864 inappropriate to raise this question in the United Nations and to have public debate on it because this would merely harden people's attitudes.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, can the noble Earl say whether, when our Ambassador consulted the Syrian Government, any reference was made to the allegation that the Syrians had murdered or maltreated some of the Israeli prisoners, and that in fact they no longer hold prisoners—they have been disposed of?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I know that there have been reports of ill-treatment but as yet we have no evidence to corroborate the allegations. If we received such corroboration we should certainly make representations to the authorities concerned. Her Majesty's Government are very concerned that the Geneva Conventions should be upheld.
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl the Minister whether he has seen photographs in the Press relating to what my noble friend has just said? And, in the light of the disquieting information which we read from day to day about Syria's treatment of Israeli prisoners, may I ask the Government whether they would now make a further representation direct to Syria?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, we are concerned that both sides in this conflict should honour both the Third and the Fourth Geneva Conventions. As I explained in my original reply, we have been in contact with both sides about this, and we hope that these contacts will bear fruit.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, while we are well aware of the "even handed" nature of the present Government in regard to this matter, may I ask whether the noble Earl is aware that, though we appreciate that the Government find it difficult to express clear-cut opinions, it is the feeling of, I am sure, all noble Lords that the treatment of Israeli prisoners on the Syrian front fills us with horror?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I will certainly see that the views of the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition are drawn to the attention of my right honourable friend.
§ LORD BERNSTEINMy Lords, is it not possible for your Lordships, through the Foreign Office and Her Majesty's Government, who I am quite sure have done their best, to send an all-Party Committee from this House to see whether the prisoners are in existence or not? Because that is what is worrying a great number of people.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, while I respect the view of the noble Lord, Lord Bernstein, I do not think that that would really be the best way to set about this problem. Fundamentally, with regard to the Fourth Convention, this is a matter which pre-eminently refers to the International Red Cross. We believe that that is the best agency for dealing with the problem, and that a Government-to-Government basis is the best way to deal with the problem of negotiations. We wish to see this come about, but I do not believe that sending an all-Party delegation from this House would produce the ends which the noble Lord wishes.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, am I right to assume that the International Red Cross, among its multifarious and beneficent functions, has the responsibility and duty to make inquiries about the condition of all prisoners, and may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government have consulted the International Red Cross in this matter?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, under the Third Convention a list of prisoners must be supplied to the International Red Cross, the Red Cross must be allowed to visit the prisoners and the countries involved must repatriate their prisoners after the cessation of hostilities. Under the Fourth Convention, which deals with the protection of civilians, if they are evacuated during a conflict they must be returned without delay at the end, and the Red Cross must be allowed to visit the occupied areas; and it is my understanding that this has not been allowed.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, will the noble Lord clarify what he means by 866 his reference to "Government-to-Government"? Do we understand that Her Majesty's Government have made representations to the Syrian Government; and if not, why not?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, as I explained in my original reply, we have been in touch with the Syrian Government.
§ LORD BERNSTEINMy Lords, may I ask whether the noble Earl would consider the suggestion which I put forward? It is an easy answer to say, "We have done everything." Many Governments have said that they have done everything and, later on, when we read the diaries and biographies of people, we find that they have not done everything. Would the noble Earl reconsider this suggestion that Members of the other place, if not Members of your Lordships' House, might form an all-Party delegation to inspect the prisoners and see whether they are still alive?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, there are international agencies to do precisely what the noble Lord has suggested. I suspect that if they do not have access, it would be extremely unlikely that an all-Party delegation from either House or both would have access.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, would the noble Earl consider approaching his right honourable friend to ask whether he would call the Syrian Ambassador to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and express to him the concern of your Lordships' House and, I believe, the concern of people throughout the country, at the treatment of the prisoners of war? If the noble Earl would give that undertaking, some of the concern expressed in your Lordships' House might be mitigated.
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I understand entirely the concern which has been expressed this afternoon. I shall be more than happy to accede to Lord Shepherd's request and draw the attention of my right honourable friend to what has been said in your Lordships' House.