§ 2.42 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether with regard to the Trade Promotion Mission to Soviet Russia, with which country our balance of trade is so adverse, and in view of the commendable zeal for research on wages rates elsewhere in foreign countries, any arrangements have been made to inquire into rates of wages currently paid to workers in Russia and its occupied countries.
THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWELDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)No, my Lords, wages paid to 897 workers in the Soviet Union or other countries would not be a suitable subject for discussion by the Anglo-Soviet Joint Commission for Trade and Technology, to which I assume the noble Lord refers.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, the reply is disappointing and an'opportunity is lost. But in regard to this question of wages paid in foreign countries would the Minister not agree that wages paid to white people in the oppressed and subjugated areas of the Russian Communist empire should attract priority over those in countries in Asia or Africa? Further, would she not agree that pressure to improve wages, and therefore buying power, in Soviet Russia might well increase the demand for British goods?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I agree with my noble friend that it is very important to increase the trade between the Soviet Union and ourselves. The investigation into wage rates for African workers in South Africa is not of course being made by the Government. My noble friend will recall that it is being carried out by a Parliamentary Committee—the Trade and Industry Sub-committee of the Select Committee on Expenditure.
§ LORD WIGGMy Lords, if the noble Baroness is carrying out researches into comparative wages in this country and the Soviet Union will she bear in mind that in the Soviet Union they are able to buy butter at 8p per lb.?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I have observed that fact. But the fact remains, of course, that there is no parallel with South Africa, where the criticism was about the low level of wages paid to certain African workers by South African subsidiaries of British companies. I understand that in the Soviet Union the majority of workers are paid by the State.
§ LORD ORR-EWINGMy Lords, will my noble friend not agree that in order to get some perspective on the pay given to African workers in South Africa it is important to consider what is paid to other African workers in the same Continent? Would she not agree that there are 42 other countries, most of 898 them far less democratic than South Africa, where people do not vote and where Governments are changed by military putsch or by changeover? Perhaps one should see, before passing judgment, what are the wages in other comparable countries.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, at no time have the Government said that they would undertake any investigation of this kind in any country, because of course the conditions of employment are primarily a matter for individual firms; it is not for the Government to intervene in their commercial decisions.
§ LORD ORR-EWINGMy Lords, I sought to get the guidance of the noble Baroness as to whether it might not put Members of the House of Commons, and particularly the Trade and Industry Sub-committee, in disregard in the eyes of the country if they got figures and statistics which were totally irrelevant.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I am sure the Parliamentary sub-committee will decide which of the statistics it collects are relevant and which not relevant.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, with regard to the question raised by my noble friend Lord Orr-Ewing, will the noble Baroness bear in mind that there are attracted into South Africa some 900,000 people from countries North of South Africa where presumably the wage rates are so much lower than in South Africa, because otherwise they would not go there?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, it was my understanding that this Question was primarily about the Soviet Union; but of course any British company operating overseas will, we hope, recognise that it is in their own interests to earn a good reputation as employers.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, would not the noble Baroness qualify her statement regarding intervention about wages in other countries by acknowledging that I.L.O. conventions do apply to territories which have signed its recommendation?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, that may well be so, but the Question on the Order Paper referred to the Anglo-Soviet Joint Commission for Trade and Technology.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that as a result of my investigations into the wages paid in the Soviet Union I found no indication that the auxiliary workers in the hospitals there were exploited as are ours in this country to-day?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, that is a very interesting comment.