MOTOR VEHICLES (VARIATION OF SPEED LIMITS) REGULATIONS 1973 (Hansard, 16 April 1973)

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, may I interrupt the noble Lord? Are the Government again trying to move two Orders simultaneously? The noble Lord may speak to the second Order by agreement with the House, but having seen the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers—I confess, aided by the Chair—getting it wrong, would it not be better if the noble Lord merely moves the first Order and indicates that he is speaking to the second Order, also? There are certain arrangements by which Orders can be taken en bloc, but there is a procedure that has to be gone through.

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, with very great respect to the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, the Leader of the Opposition, we are not now, as in the last two Orders, discussing two Orders of cereals and one of eggs; we are discussing the trailing of vehicles behind other vehicles on motorways.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, I fully appreciate that, but the House cannot have two Motions before it simultaneously. I am quite sure that the Chair will confirm that, the Clerk will confirm that and the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, will confirm that. Will the noble Lord confine himself to moving one Order?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, I am sure that Lord Tom Noddy and all will confirm that, too. I am perfectly willing to move the Regulations separately if I may speak to them together.

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS
Yes.

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
I thank noble Lords. I have already said what I am doing. As these are very simple points, may I briefly inform your Lordships that for a number of years there have been various pressures for higher speed limits for caravans and other trailers towed behind cars and similar light vehicles, on the grounds that existing limits of 30 m.p.h. or 40 m.p.h. are unnecessarily restrictive having regard to continuing improvements in the performance and stability of the vehicles concerned. It has rightly been agreed 977 that unnecessarily slow vehicles, particularly bulky ones like caravans, are a source of obstruction and frustration to other drivers. Safeguards are nevertheless essential at higher speeds and earlier attempts to frame accompanying safeguards prescribed in the Regulations before the House have attracted a wide measure of support from organisations and the police. The basic justification for the Regulations, therefore, is that the increased speed limits will help to ease the congestion often caused by caravans and trailers, thus leading to increased road safety. The conditions imposed in the Regulations will ensure that the vehicles themselves are safe at the higher speed limits allowed. My Lords, I beg to move the first of the Orders standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ LORD CHAMPION
My Lords, as we are discussing the two Motions together, I am bound to say that I think the Minister has given us the explanation that we require in this connection. I notice that the noble Lord, and certainly the Minister in the other place, said that increasing the speed of some of these vehicles from 40 m.p.h. to 50 m.p.h. would lessen the frustration of following vehicle drivers. It does not seem to me that that would be uniformly applicable, for on most roads I find it very much easier to pass a vehicle travelling at 40 m.p.h. than to pass one travelling at 50 m.p.h. The clear length of road required to enable one to pass the slower vehicle is much shorter than that required to pass the faster vehicle. That is a fact which explains why, when one is driving behind a lorry, one is glad to come to a hill when the lorry slows down and one can pass it comparatively easily. That is perhaps a point to be considered when the Minister is again considering the possibility of doing something about the speed limits of these vehicles with trailers.
There is another point of difficulty about these vehicles that are towing trailers and that is bunching. I am not too sure that bunching ought not to be prohibited but I suppose the difficulty would be that of enforcement. Anyone who has found themselves, especially during the holiday season, trailing behind 978 two or three of these vehicles between which there has not been sufficient room to enable one to regain the correct side of the road between them, will know what I am getting at. That is very common. This sometimes happens with lorries, although not very often because lorry drivers are sensitive to this point and normally leave sufficient room to enable one to sandwich between them if the necessity arises when trying to pass.
The further point I want to make is that we are not told when the Regulations are to become operative. I notice that my honourable friend in another place, when these Instruments were discussed, deplored the fact that they would not come into effect until after the Easter holiday. Is that really the case? I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Mowbray and Stourton, will be able to tell us. Even if he tells us that they will be brought into operation before the holiday, it is surely a piece of bad timing to lay an Instrument on March 29, leaving blank the day of coming into operation. That sort of timing leaves the motoring and caravan Press no time at all to advise motorists of the alteration between today and next Friday. This is a point which ought to be considered in the Department when they are considering these Regulations and the laying of them, particularly as we are so near to a holiday period. However, despite some doubts about the Regulations, we certainly do not intend to oppose them.

§ LORD SOMERS
My Lords, I should like to confirm everything that the noble Lord, Lord Champion, has said. It is possible, of course, for a powerful car to overtake a lorry travelling at 50 m.p.h. although not without exceeding the 70 m.p.h. limit; and if it happens to be one of those vehicles we see only too often bearing the words "Long vehicle" on the back it takes a considerable time to pass it. The question of bunching is really a matter of driver behaviour and driver education, which, of course, will take place, although, I am afraid, only very gradually. Apart from that, my one objection to the first set of Regulations is the extremely complicated Schedule. If I were the owner of a commercial vehicle, I honestly would be at a complete loss to know which class my vehicle came into. May I ask the noble Lord Id-to is to be responsible for deciding 979 which class a vehicle comes into, and therefore what the speed limit is?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, having heard the noble Lord, Lord Champion, and the noble Lord, Lord Somers, I should like to say a few words about these Regulations. We are still on the first one, but we are talking about both. With regard to the ability to overtake at 50 m.p.h. rather than 40 m.p.h., I would merely say that, like many noble Lords in this House, and many other people in the country, we know that there are many columns that twist round our country roads, such as Chesterton and Belloc used to describe, which, if they go ten miles an hour faster, make our journey ten miles an hour faster. I do not think we necessarily have to overtake them. Let them go ten miles an hour faster and we are that amount of time better off.
With regard to the military discipline of bunching, a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Champion, I have a certain amount of personal sympathy with him. It is a point that I have often raised with officials in the Department of the Environment and it is a point which seems to have a certain amount of common sense. But when we get down to the facts of the matter it is impracticable to legislate on it, as I think the noble Lord would agree. What noble Lord is going to say what sort of vehicle cannot overtake another vehicle? To legislate on such a matter is almost impossible.
I have to tell the noble Lord, Lord Champion, that although it would have been desirable to get this matter through and legislated before Easter it is not possible. He is probably aware that the Regulation will not take effect until fifteen days after this Motion has been approved.
The noble Lord, Lord Somers, asked me about the complicated Schedule. The various speed limits will be advertised. I think people who have vehicles and are in business, or are travelling for pleasure in vehicles, will not find the Schedule hard to understand. The Press Office will publicise them. The matter will be duly publicised in time.