HOUSING (PAYMENTS FOR WELL MAINTAINED HOUSES) ORDER 1973 (Hansard, 16 April 1973)

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, bearing in mind the amount of business which your Lordships have before you, unless your Lordships wish for any longer explanation, I will merely beg to move that the Housing (Payments for Well Maintained Houses) Order 1973, a copy of which was laid before this House on March 19, 1973, be approved.

§ LORD GARNSWORTHY
My Lords, we had a brief discussion on November 23 last year when the Housing (Payments for Well Maintained Houses) Order 1972 was before the House. I have no wish to repeat what I said on that occasion, but there are a few comments I wish to make. It may be that the noble Lord opposite will have in his possession information that he lacked on the earlier occasion. The present Order adjusts the multiplier used in calculating by reference to the rateable value of the house the amount of payment for a well maintained house. The 1972 Order provided a figure of 8 and, having regard to the 1973 revaluation, this Order reduces it 968 to 3⅛. On average, that appears to be about right. We ought to take note of the fact that in different parts of the country there are differences in the percentage increases of rateable values of domestic properties. The reduction of the multiplier ensures that grants will be contained within the limits set out in the 1972 Order.
In November I asked the noble Lord, Lord Mowbray and Stourton, to state the extent to which tenants have availed themselves of the compensation payments available. I also asked him what percentage of compensation payments have been given to tenants as distinct from landlords. It was doubtful then whether tenants were taking advantage of the scheme as they should. He then stated in reply that, despite his anxiety to have been prepared with the information, he had not been able to secure it. I also inquired on that occasion about publicity, particularly for tenants. This debate is an opportunity to secure further publicity for the Order and an opportunity to get the answers written into the Record. I am unable to quote the information that I requested in November last. We shall not oppose the Order, but information in reply to the questions I have put would be welcomed. I hope that the time interval has been sufficient to allow the appropriate Department to prepare the information.

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, I hate to say this, but I am still totally unaware of the facts to which the noble Lord referred. I still do not have the information. I can only suppose that we do not have the information as such. These things are not easily come by. Housing facts and applications for funds have to go through a "sieve", as the noble Lord is well aware. It is not with any intention of hiding the facts that I am standing here saying that I do not know. If I knew the facts I would tell the noble Lord.

§ LORD GARNSWORTHY
My Lords. I am quite sure that the noble Lord has no intention of doing anything like that. I want to draw attention to the fact that information was requested when the matter was before the Upper House last year, and it will be interesting to know whether some attempt has been made to collect it. 969 My Lords, attempts are being made to collect this information. I can only repeat that the information at the moment is not available. I apologise to the noble Lord; I should like to see that information. I told the noble Lord last November that I should like to see it, and I should still like to do so, but it is not available.
The noble Lord said there was a reduction from 8 to 3⅛ and that this was about right. We accept that there may be anomalies in various parts of the country but, taking the country by and large, this is what we consider right. The local district authorities also agree. My Lords, I do not think it is worth while going into a great deal of detail about this point. There are so many small areas in the country where one can find exceptions that we could go on until this time tomorrow night discussing them. It is pointless to do so. By and large, this figure is about right, and I think that we should accept it.

§ LORD GARNSWORTHY
I hope the noble Lord is under no illusion; I was not wanting a great deal more detail. I hope I have indicated that we shall not oppose the Order.