EASTER ACT 1928 (Hansard, 12 April 1973)

LORD MERTHYR
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS)
My Lords, this still depends on when agreement can be reached between the major Christian denominations. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary has been using his best endeavours to this end. In August last year he again wrote to the British Council of Churches, and to the Roman Catholic Hierarchy in England and Wales, expressing the hope that they would continue to support the efforts being made to resolve the matter. He will take whatever other initiatives are open to him to keep it before the attention of the Churches.

LORD MERTHYR
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that many people think that it is really indefensible for Her Majesty's Government to prevent the operation of an Act of Parliament for 45 years?—an Act which has been passed by both Houses without a Division and with the support of the principal Churches in this country.

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, I do not know that it is very easy to defend, but the fact remains that ever since this matter has been discussed we have always said that we would not act without the agreement of the Churches. This agreement has been sought widely and frequently, but it is not yet forthcoming to the extent that we would think that we should at the 764 moment be able to act on the religious side of this matter.

LORD MERTHYR
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that there is not a word in the Act which says that Her Majesty's Government must obtain the agreement of the Churches, but only that, regard shall be had to any opinion officially expressed by any Church or other Christian body"?— and no more.

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, I am aware of the fact, but, as my noble friend Lord Windlesham said when this Question was asked just over a year ago, one has to remember that Easter is the major Christian Festival and, although the Act may put it in that way, when you are talking about the date of the major Christian Festival I do not think the Government could be expected to disregard the views of the Churches or not to take them into account. When one is talking about a secular holiday it may be a different matter, but when it comes to the major Christian Festival I do not think the wording of the Act lets us out of taking account of the view of the Churches.

§ THE LORD BISHOP OF CHESTER
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that 111 of the member Churches of the World Council of Churches have indicated their desire for a fixed Easter, and that at the Vatican Council the Roman Catholic Church showed that it was in favour of a fixed Easter so long as agreement could be reached? In view of the fact that there is a meeting of the British Council of Churches and Roman Catholic Joint Working Party in a few weeks' time could he convey to the British Council of Churches and to the Roman Catholics the sense of urgency that there is in this House that this impasse which has existed for 45 years should now be broken?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, I was aware of it, and the right reverend Prelate was good enough to remind me of the fact further by letter. My right honourable friend in his letter of last autumn spoke about "impasse" and about the urgency felt in this House. The right reverend Prelate has said that the Churches, including the Roman Catholic Church, are agreed on this, but as I understand the position—and it is 765 no different from the position last year—the Roman Catholic Church still take the view that they would not wish to proceed in this matter without the agreement of the Orthodox Churches. I am afraid that, so far, this has not been able to be achieved.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, can the noble Viscount say what is the size of the support of the Greek Orthodox Church in this country? This is a point which I think should be borne in mind when taking what is the undoubted view of the majority of Churches in this country.

VISCOUNT COLVILLE or CULROSS
My Lords, I do not think the point of view that the Vatican have taken is confined to the size of the Greek Orthodox Church, or indeed the Russian Orthodox Church, in this country. They take account of the Orthodox Churches as a whole throughout the world, and it is with those Churches as a whole that they wish to seek agreement: and I believe they are trying to seek it.

§ THE EARL OF DUNDEE
My Lords, in view of what the right reverend Prelate said in his supplementary question, is it not the case that the obstacle to getting the agreement of the Orthodox Church is that there is no communication between the Orthodox Church in Russia and the Orthodox Church in Greece? Since the Roman Church have said that they would not like to do it without the agreement of the Orthodox Church, but as all the other Churches agree, would it not be possible for everybody else except the Orthodox Church to get together and make an arrangement now, and see whether the Roman Catholic Church would not then change their mind, since the Roman Catholic Church has said by a hugh majority that it is in favour of a fixed Easter only it does not like to go on without the Orthodox Church?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, for all I know, it may be right that there is no direct communication between the Russian and the Greek Orthodox Churches. This is not directly a matter for Her Majesty's Government. They nearly had a Synod last year, but alas! it did not come off. I should have thought that there were channels of communication which may be other than 766 direct and which might be more profitably pursued. But while the situation remains that the Vatican wishes to carry with it the agreement of the Orthodox Churches—and that, I understand, is still its situation—I do not think that we can say that everybody is agreed and that we should now go ahead. We do not have the unqualified agreement of all the Churches concerned.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, if this is a matter of concern to the secular side of life, would the noble Viscount consider whether—without referring the matter to the United Nations—the Government might at least discuss this with our colleagues in the European Community? Since it is a matter of such importance, surely this is an appropriate subject for the noble Lord, Lord Rothschild, to consider. As this matter will affect Governments far into the future if it is not settled, if we cannot have a fixed day for Easter could we have a fixed day for Lord Merthyr's Question every year?

LORD HAWKE
My Lords, does not the argument about the Orthodox Church fall to the ground as their Easter is different from ours, anyway?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, the difficulty about fixing a day for Lord Merthyr's Question is that it might come in the Easter Recess.

§ BARONESS STOCKS
My Lords, does it matter two hoots what other Churches do? Is it not rather pleasant to have Easter at varying seasons of the year?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
That, my Lords, depends upon whether or not you are a parent.

§ LORD BURNTWOOD
My Lords, may I ask the noble Viscount whether he is saying he is, or has been, in correspondence with the Ecumenical Patriarch? If not, would not that be a good idea?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, my right honourable friend has not written to either of the Orthodox Patriarchs. We have taken this question up through the British Council of Churches and also directly with the Roman Catholic authorities, but I am bound to say that we have not written to either of the Patriarchs.

§ THE LORD BISHOP OF CHESTER
My Lords, will the noble Viscount remember that I reminded him in the second part of my question that there is to be an important meeting between the British Council of Churches and the Roman Catholic Church in a few weeks' time? Could he therefore ask that this matter be considered at that meeting?

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, I am grateful to be reminded of that fact—I am sorry if I did not answer the right reverend Prelate—but whether it is for Her Majesty's Government to ask that this should be considered, or whether it is for the Churches to deal with this, I know not. If it is for us to do so then I am sure we would deal with the matter. It may be more appropriate for the Churches to do it at their own motion.

§ LORD BALERNO
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that on Monday last the British Council of Churches discussed this matter? The feeling was that it would be unlikely that they would get agreement with the Eastern Churches and therefore concentration should be made on getting the agreement of the Western Churches alone.

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, I am sure that is correct; I was not aware that it happened last Monday. But the fact still remains that the Roman Catholic Church, the Vatican, has so far said it does not wish to move on the question until it has the agreement of the Orthodox Churches. We can only ask for persuasion to be used, either to reach that agreement or to abandon the point of view.

VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS
My Lords, it appears to me that there is a great deal of pressure to implement it. This is the reason for the successive Questions. I should have thought it would be contrary to the spirit of the House to seek now to repeal this Act: we should try to get it implemented.