HL Deb 12 April 1973 vol 341 cc800-2

[No. 4]

After Clause 13, insert the following new clause:

Payment of interpreters in criminal cases (England and Wales)

.—(1) Where in any criminal proceedings an interpreter is required because of a defendant's lack of English, the expenses properly incurred on his employment shall be ordered by the court to be paid out of central funds; and—

  1. (a) where there is laid before a justice of the peace for any area an information charging with an offence a person who because of his lack of English would require an interpreter on his trial, but the information is not proceeded with, then, if he has incurred expenses on the employment of an interpreter for the proceedings on the information, he may apply to a magistrates' court for that area and the court shall order the payment out of central funds of the expenses properly so incurred by him; and
  2. (b) where such a person is committed for trial but is not ultimately tried, then if he has incurred expenses on the employment of an interpreter for the proceedings in the Crown Court, he may apply to the Crown Court and the court shall order the payment out of central funds of the expenses properly so incurred by him.

(2) In this section "criminal proceedings" means any proceedings in which a court has power under the Costs in Criminal Cases Act 1973 to make an order for payment of costs out of central funds or would have power to do so if any reference in that Act to an indictable offence were a reference to any offence; and sections 13 to 17 of that Act (which relate to the procedure for implementing orders under the Act and other supplemental matters) shall apply in relation to this section as they apply in relation to that Act, except that—

  1. (a) in section 15 (costs ordered by magistrates' court to be paid out of central funds) subsection (1) shall apply as if the reference in paragraph (a) to an indictable offence included any offence, and shall also apply where an order is made by a magistrates' court under subsection (1)(a) above; and
  2. (b) section 16(2) (payment of costs ordered to be paid out of central funds and by 801 accused or prosecutor) shall not apply so as to require a defendant to reimburse any costs paid out of central funds by virtue of this section.

(3) In this section "court" includes the House of Lords, and "defendant" means the person (whether convicted or not) who is alleged to be guilty of an offence."

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I rise to move, That this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 4, with which is to be associated Amendments Nos. 5, 12 and 13. This, again, is a Government Amendment. It was introduced in Committee in another place and is intended to improve the existing arrangements for the provision of interpreters in all criminal proceedings. It extends both to summary and indictable trials and it allows the court either itself to assign an interpreter or to accept an interpreter supplied by one of the parties and to pay him from central Government funds. As in all English sentences, it is the last part of what I have just said that really is the most important part; because obviously it is contrary to any kind of natural justice that a person should have to sustain a criminal trial unless he can hear and understand the proceedings in a language with which he is familiar. It is equally impossible to examine or to cross-examine a witness who is not adequately familiar with English without providing an interpreter for the evidence of that witness. In our adversarial system, this has always been generally recognised, as I hope are all the requirements of natural justice. But in our adversarial system the witnesses had to be paid by one or other of the parties. It therefore forms part of the costs which either are or are not dealt with in an order for costs made by the court at the end of the trial.

When you come to think of it, this is an injustice to a potential defendant; and indeed in a private prosecution it might be so to a private prosecutor because the court might make no order or the person concerned might be unable to "raise the wind" for the necessary interpreter at the time he was wanted. Incidentally, it put us in peril of breach of the European Convention of Human Rights of 1950 and this Amendment will avoid that possibility by eliminating the chance that a convicted defendant might be ordered to pay all the costs including the interpreter's fees and expenses. The new clause, which is Amendment No. 5, makes similar provisison for Northern Ireland and Amendments Nos. 12 and 13 contain two consequential minor drafting amendments. There is no provision for Scotland in this Bill because none is needed. Scottish law is already adequate on the point.

Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendent.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.