§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many interest-free loans were made to African, Arabian and other Governments respectively since June 1970, the total sums involved and what arrangements are made for repayment.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)My Lords, £46 million in loans were made to 13 African Governments, one loan of £3.6 million to an Arabian Government, and £209 million in loans to 17 other Governments. The loans were usually for 25 years, with a grace period at the start during which no capital repayments are made. I will, with permission, arrange for further details to be published in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that information in reply to my Question. Can she inform the House whether these loans are at any time provided in cash or whether they are in the form of credits which would imply that goods are manufactured in this country and purchased by the countries receiving these loans?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, the loans are usually in cash, but the method adopted depends very much on the circumstances of each country.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, in view of the very large sum involved, which surprises me, is it not desirable before we provide what apparently amounts to gifts—because the long period of repayment and the fact that very little has been repaid indicate that they are very generous gifts—to make a stipulation that they should take the form of credits for goods that are manufactured mainly in this country? Moreover, should not some information be provided as to how these loans are used?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, of course a very careful assessment is made of the needs of particular countries, and various projects are discussed with the Governments concerned to ascertain which will be the most useful. I would say to noble Lords that interest-free loans are not equivalent to gifts because at the end of the period the capital is repaid.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, in giving these details, would it be possible for the noble Baroness to specify which loans were made to oil producing countries and whether any of the repayments can be made in kind?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I did say that I would circulate the details of the particular payments. As I look up and down the list I do not see any country on it which is an oil producing country; but the noble Lord would in any case be able to see all the details in the Supply Estimates which are published regularly.
§ LORD HARVEY OF PRESTBURYMy Lord, can my noble friend say what sums have been advanced to Uganda?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, at this particular moment and under this particular heading, none.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, may I put a further supplementary question? Can the noble Baroness say whether any of the countries who have received these loans have purchased arms in this country or in any other country for their use either for defensive or offensive purposes?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, not to my knowledge or not so as to be apparent.
§ LORD SLATERMy Lords, out of the global sum of aid to which the noble Baroness made reference, can she say what amount of money was spent in this country by the countries that have asked for assistance?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I am not sure that I heard the noble Lord's question. Would he be good enough to ask it again?
§ LORD SLATERMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say what part of the total sum to which she referred was allocated to the purchase of machinery and other equipment from this country to help those countries that have made aplication to us for that form of assistance?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I will try to see whether it is possible to break down the figures to find out what part of the aid is used to purchase equipment from this country. I do not guarantee that it will be possible to do so.
§ LORD PARGITERMy Lords, can the noble Baroness tell us whether or not the division will show the amount of money paid in cash form purely for the purpose of development as against other commercial objectives?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEYes, my Lords, I think I can do that.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, before getting into too many details, is my noble friend aware that the general policy of developed countries such as ours of helping the underdeveloped countries generously, and particularly by way of interest-free loans, has the general support of the community as the right way to discharge our obligations?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for saying that.
§ LORD BURNTWOODMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say whether any of the countries to whom loans have been given have subsequently broken off diplomatic relations with us? Are there any such countries?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIENo, my Lords.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, can the noble Baroness tell the House whether we have ever provided any interest-free loans in the United Kingdom, say, for the purposes of housing and the like—apart from the recent interest-free loan or a gift (I do not know which it is) of £15 million to the building societies?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, while I appreciate the noble Lord's ingenuity, his Question did specifically refer to African, Arabian and other Governments not our own.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, in view of the fact that we can go on cross-examining the noble Baroness for a lone time, I wonder whether, either now or in producing this statement, she could indicate what is the latest general statement in this area?—bearing in mind that it has been the policy of successive Governments that help should go from the richer countries to the poorer countries both in terms of grants, interest-free loans and ordinary loans.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I can say that the first statement on this matter was made in the life-time of the Government of noble Lords opposite, in 1965.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, would the noble Baroness consider whether a new, up-to-date statement could be made? If this is the first and last one, I should have thought that there should be something which gives a complete breakdown, bearing in mind that such aid redounds to our own social and economic advantage.
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, there are debates in another place on the overseas development administration in which my right honourable friend makes statements to which the noble Lord can refer. As I said in reply to an earlier supplementary question, most of the details are to be found in the published Supplies Estimates. I think that they will bring the noble Lord up to date.
§ Following is the detailed List referred to in the Minister's main Answer:
| INTEREST FREE LOANS COMMITTED JUNE 1970 TO DECEMBER 1972 | ||||||||
| Country | Number of Loans | Amount | Maturity | Grace | ||||
| Africa | £ | |||||||
| Sierra Leone | … | … | … | … | 2 | 1,820,000 | 25 | 2+5 |
| St. Helena | … | … | … | … | 1 | 4,000 | 25 | — |
| Gambia | … | … | … | … | 1 | 100,000 | 25 | 2+5 |
| Gambia | … | … | … | … | 1 | 930,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Swaziland | … | … | … | … | 1 | 4,500,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Swaziland | … | … | … | … | 3 | 226,840 | 25 | 6 |
| Ghana | … | … | … | … | 2 | 5,700,000 | 25 | 5 |
| Malawi | … | … | … | … | 3 | 3,935,000 | 25 | 2+5 |
| Malawi | … | … | … | … | 1 | 11,000,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Mauritius | … | … | … | … | 1 | 5,000,000 | 25 | 2 |
| Botswana | … | … | … | … | 1 | 6,800,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Botswana | … | … | … | … | 1 | 95,486 | 25 | 6 |
| E.A.C | … | … | … | … | 1 | 1,000,000 | 25 | 2+5 |
| Nigeria | … | … | … | … | 2 | 2,250,000 | 25 | — |
| Ethiopia | … | … | … | … | 3 | 1,275,000 | 20 | — |
| Sudan | … | … | … | … | 1 | 1,100,000 | 25 | 2+5 |
| Tunisia | … | … | … | … | 1 | 275,000 | 25 | 2+5 |
| Total Africa | … | … | … | 26 | 46,011,326 |
| Arabia (Middle East) | ||||||||
| Jordan | … | … | … | … | 1 | 3,600,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Total Arabia | … | … | … | 1 | 3,600,000 |
| other countries | ||||||||
| Turkey | … | … | … | … | 3 | 2,594,000 | 25 | 2+5 |
| Ceylon | … | … | … | … | 3 | 5,625,000 | 25 | 3+5 |
| India | … | … | … | … | 13 | 150,600,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Pakistan | … | … | … | … | 8 | 14,195,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Solomon Islands | … | … | … | 2 | 151,656 | 25 | 2 | |
| Indonesia | … | … | … | … | 6 | 21,338,000 | 25 | 7 |
| British Honduras | … | … | … | 4 | 568,000 | 25 | 7 | |
| Afghanistan | … | … | … | … | 2 | 131,000 | 25 | 1+5 |
| Ceylon | … | … | … | … | 2 | 2,200,000 | 25 | 7 |
| St. Kitts | … | … | … | … | 1 | 1,700,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Falkland Islands | … | … | … | 1 | 100,000 | 25 | 7 | |
| Tonga | … | … | … | … | 1 | 250,000 | 25 | 2½+5 |
| Bangladesh | … | … | … | … | 2 | 4,835,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Western Samoa | … | … | … | 1 | 50,000 | 25 | 7 | |
| Peru | … | … | … | … | 2 | 530,000 | 25 | 7 |
| Vietnam (South) | … | … | … | 1 | 1,000,000 | 25 | 7 | |
| IADB (Bolivia) | … | … | … | 1 | 2,700,000 | 25 | 3 | |
| Total Other Countries | … | 53 | 208,567,656 |