§ 11.25 a.m.
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, perhaps it would be convenient if I were now to make a Statement on the position in Uganda. The latest reports which we have received from Kampala this morning indicate that all is now quiet, at least outwardly. The alarm that blew up suddenly yesterday was short-lived, but the present calm is clearly precarious. We are therefore keeping under urgent and continuing review the steps that would have to be taken to ensure the safety of British subjects in Uganda if the situation was to deteriorate seriously. Our High Commissioner is under instructions to keep in close touch with the Ugandan authorities, who have accepted responsibility for our people's safety.
The protection of British subjects is of course the Government's prime concern.. We have regular advice from people on the spot and I can assure your Lordships. that we are watching the situation very closely indeed. I am glad to be able to' inform your Lordships that the British 1411 expatriates who were detained in recent days have been released. Nevertheless we deplore the way in which these people have been treated, which was outrageous. I am sure the House will agree that this particularly applies to the detention of women and children.
We have been watching with deep concern the growing tension between Uganda and Tanzania. The attempt by the Libyan Government to send military assistance to Uganda clearly has grave implications that inevitably increase the tension. We understand that certain African leaders are bringing moderating influences to bear.
We are continuing to get encouraging responses to the appeals we have made to other Governments to take Asian United Kingdom passport holders for settlement. The Indian Government have been most helpful and co-operative in our recent negotiations. We particularly welcome the recent generous offer by the West German Government to accept up to 1,000 Asians, and we are hopeful that other countries in Western Europe and Latin America will follow suit. In this context we raised yesterday the Ugandan question at the meeting of the E.E.C. political directors at The Hague. Altogether fifteen countries have now made firm offers to admit Asians, or have indicated that they expect to be able to do so. Some of these countries can, of course, only takes small numbers. In the United Nations the Secretary-General is continuing his bilateral dealings with President Amin and my right honourable friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary will be discussing the situation with him as soon as he arrives in New York.
My Lords, that is the end of my Statement.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, we are grateful to the noble Earl for making that Statement, and it goes without saying that the Government have the full support of all Parties in the action that they may see fit to take. Dealing briefly with the latter part of the Statement, it may be that some noble Lords will wish to ask further questions on the re-settlement side of the matter and it is encouraging that there has been this response from other countries. I notice that the 1412 noble Earl used the words "British subjects", meaning both expatriates and Asians, and all our thoughts at the moment are for their safety. The remarkable stories in the Press, and the even more remarkable tape recording which the B.B.C. correspondent managed to get while he was actually in gaol, were very disturbing. I wonder whether the noble Earl could tell the House specifically whether any British expatriates or British Asians have actually been killed or injured or seriously molested. Obviously a number have had extremely unpleasant and frightening experiences, and in view of the statement that the Uganda Government still accepts responsibility for their safety it would be helpful if there is any reassuring information that the noble Earl can give because, as he has said, we are confronted with a precarious situation. For those reasons I do not wish to press the Government on further contingency plans, which are always present anyway, but if he can say anything further it would be helpful.
The noble Earl referred to the United Nations and spoke of bilateral negotiations. I wonder whether there is anything further that he can tell the House about how these negotiations are going and the extent to which the Government are keeping in touch with the Secretary General of the U.N., and indeed of other Governments. I think we were encouraged to hear that a number of Governments have offered assistance, and we have noted the action of the Sudanese Government, who have been on the side of moderation in this matter. Clearly the important thing is that we may need to get everybody out, and there should be no more argument about bringing out British Asians, especially in view of the success the Government have had in getting the co-operation of other countries. The Government seem to be dealing with the matter with great urgency, and if they continue to do so they will have the continued support of everybody in this country.
Obviously, in certain circumstances Parliament may have to be recalled, though remembering when we were recalled for the Czech crisis there is not very much that we can do about the matter, and we all look to the Government to use every effort and brains and initiative. Our thoughts go out to our 1413 people, and of course very much once again to our diplomatic and High Commission staff who are having to deal with this situation.
§ 11.30 a.m.
§ LORD WADEMy Lords, I join in thanking the noble Earl for his Statement. As he is aware, there has been a good deal of discussion in this country as to whether the Uganda Asians should be accepted and, if accepted, what kind of welcome they should receive. It would now seem to be not a question whether they should come here but how to get them out, and to do so on humanitarian grounds quite apart from any legal question. It seems to be becoming desperately urgent both for British whites and for Asians with United Kingdom passports. I of course welcome the agreement of a number of countries to help in taking those holding United Kingdom passports. While I appreciate that this is a very delicate matter, and while one does not want to make the situation any worse for those who are there, may I ask the noble Earl whether there is any prospect of all those countries which agreed to accept these unfortunate people cooperating in an emergency air lift, and at the same time bringing pressure to bear on General Amin to allow something to happen which he himself has demanded?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am grateful for the response of the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition and of the noble Lord, Lord Wade, to the Statement I have made. I echo what the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, said about our regard for our diplomatic staff in Uganda, about the respect we have for the work they are doing in very difficult circumstances, and our concern for them and indeed for the British subjects who are at risk in this situation. I can confirm, in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, that the reports I have indicate that no British subjects, whether expatriates or Asians holding British passports, have been seriously molested. As for arrangements of a contingency nature, I can assure your Lordships that in this kind of situation we keep under very close review arrangements of that sort, and that is naturally the case in this instance. So far as the United Nations is concerned, I referred to the position 1414 there in my original Statement, but I can assure the noble Lord that we are in close and indeed constant touch with the Secretary General and his staff.
The noble Lord, Lord Wade, asked about the arrangements which might be concerted for airlifting those affected out of Uganda in co-operation with those countries which have agreed to settle, if they wish to go there, United Kingdom Asian passport holders. The position is that arrangements for extra flights have been made, but during the present week only one of those extra flights has in fact taken place because they were not filled. There have been two main reasons for this—first, because the flights were inevitably arranged at short notice and with somewhat inadequate publicity and, second, because some people have been afraid to use the road from Kampala to Entebbe, especially after dark. As your Lordships know, there are a number of road blocks and several incidents have been reported. I will of course bear in mind the noble Lord's suggestion, but it is not at present lack of airlift capacity which is the main problem.
§ LORD REIGATEMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend to say whether any steps have been taken to bring back to Entebbe British expatriates who may be working or living out in the country, so that they may be evacuated if the situation becomes urgent?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I prefer not to be drawn too far into giving off-the-cuff replies in what is a very difficult, dangerous and indeed tense situation. I would, however, like to assure my noble friend that the High Commissioner in Kampala will be in a position to give the right advice at the right moment to all British nationals.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, will the noble Earl say what explanation the Ugandans gave to our High Commissioner for imprisoning two small children in a filthy prison?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am not aware that any explanation has yet been given, but I made it clear in my original Statement that we regard the treatment which appears to have been meted out to these small children, and there may be other women and children, as quite outrageous.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that even those of us who are sometimes critical of the Government unreservedly applaud the action of the Government in accepting the British Asians? I think he is aware that some of us have taken the view from the beginning that the most hopeful intervention could be by African Governments, and we hope that Her Majesty's Government, while not prejudicing mediation by official declarations, will give all facilities possible to the African leaders who are now seeking to mediate. There is some feeling that the British Government are now not speeding the return of British Asians because of the situation in Uganda. May I ask the Minister to dismiss that thought and to bear in mind that the confused situation which is arising in Uganda may make the position of British Asians more dangerous than it is at present?
Supplementing what the noble Lord, Lord Wade, said with a view to speeding the coming of British Asians, may I ask the noble Earl whether the Government will consider taking them to Nairobi or Mombasa by train, as the Indian Government are doing, to avoid the hold-up at Entebbe airport? Would the noble Earl also consider that members of families, dependants, should be allowed to come with their parents even if they do not hold British passports? What is to happen to the so-called stateless who have now legally returned to their position as protected persons and British subjects?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I will deal first with the last question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Brockway. The position of Asians who have been made stateless is that they are now an international responsibility and, as I think the noble Lord knows, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has accepted them as his responsibility. I am grateful to the noble Lord for his general response to my Statement and I assure him that many of the considerations which he advanced are in the mind of the Government. I would remind him that the Secretary General sent as his emissary to Uganda Dr. Robert Gardiner who is a citizen of an African State. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, that we are in close touch with the other African Governments who are deeply concerned 1416 over this matter and who may be able to play a useful mediating role. I have made it clear that the Government are fully conscious of the dangers to which British subjects in Uganda are exposed at the present time, be they British Asians or British expatriates. I am very willing to bear the noble Lord's specific suggestions in mind, but I think, in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Wade, I have made clear the reasons for the hold-up at the moment in the departure of British Asians from Uganda.
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl, while welcoming very much the way in which the Government are dealing with this matter and particularly the way in which they are getting help from the African Governments, whether they are also in touch with the Organisation of African Unity itself? May I ask one more question which will have occurred to a great many Members of your Lordships' House? Is there any news of Chief Justice Kiwanuka? Many noble Lords know him as an extremely distinguished fair-minded man. We now know him to have been extremely brave in his stand over the Stewart case, and is it perhaps rather sinister that he is not only a Bugandan but a Catholic? I wonder whether the noble Earl has any information.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, in answer to the second question of the noble Baroness, I am afraid that I have no information to give your Lordships about the detention of the Chief Justice, but I should like to make it clear that the Government deplore this act. In answer to the first question, I need to check on this point, but I would be very surprised if we are not in close touch with the Organisation, which has been already used.
§ LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURYMy Lords, could the noble Earl tell us whether, so far as is known at this moment, all British expatriates have been released?
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, would the Government consider taking more positive action which might act as a deterrent to the Uganda Government, by offering, out of funds already allocated 1417 by us to Uganda, compensation to those British subjects for the relief of the indignities and horrors which they have had to endure while being detained in Ugandan prisons?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords. I am not quite certain what the implications behind the noble Lord's suggestions are, but I take note of what he has said.
§ LORD COLYTONMy Lords. may I ask my noble friend whether he can tell us what the position is with regard to imprisoned British subjects? Chief Justice Kiwanuka, whom many of us know and respect highly, recently gave a writ of habeas corpus in respect of one of them. Is he still in gaol or are we hoping to get him out?
THE EARL OF DUDLEYMy Lords, could my noble friend say how many British nationals—I use the word advisedly because I am not sure of the definition of the word "expatriates"—have been deported from Uganda in the last few days, and whether they were deported with or without trial ; and if it was done without trial, what was the reason for their deportation?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I do not think I can give my noble friend the precise information he requires without notice. I will write to him as soon as possible and let him have the latest information at my disposal.
§ LORD PEDDIEMy Lords, all Members of this House will appreciate the decision of the West German Government to accept 1,000 of the British Asians. I would appreciate it if the noble Earl could give us some information as to the precise nature of the offer made by the West German Government. Is it that the British Asians will be offered German citizenship or alternatively, will they have but temporary residence in West Germany and later have the opportunity of coming over to Britain?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I think the details have still to be worked out 1418 We are in touch with all the Governments who have made offers, and indeed with a great many other Governments on this point. It would be a mistake for me, not having the precise information, to speculate here, but my understanding is that the offer of the West German Government, which we warmly welcome, was in the nature of permanent settlement should those who would take up the offer so desire.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, I do not think we should prolong matters, but since this is the last opportunity we shall have of having a Statement on this question, may I ask the noble Earl—he may not feel he can give an assurance now, but I did raise the point as to whether or not Parliament should be recalled—that at any rate the Government will keep closely in touch with the Leaders of the Opposition? It would be helpful and reassuring to feel that there will be this continuous information on whatever terms the Government feel right.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord. He did indeed touch on this in his initial response to my Statement. There are, of course, normal and understood conventions for keeping the Opposition Parties in touch with this type of situation and for consultation between them regarding the possible recall of Parliament. I can certainly give the noble Lord the assurance he has asked for.