§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have protested to the Government of the Republic of South Africa against the banning of the film, The Dumping Grounds, a British documentary made by a Granada Television team.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE)No, my Lords.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness whether she is aware of all the facts in this case? Are they not very serious, not only from the point of view of civil liberty but also from the point of view of British interests? Is she aware that this film was made by the Granada team, and depicts the conditions in the resettlement areas in South Africa where Africans who are regarded as superfluous to labour are concentrated? Is she further aware that when the South African Government placed under house arrest the Catholic priest, Father Desmond, the Granada company silenced his voice in the film? Is she aware that it was shown during a civil rights week, when a Russian film showing the denial of civil rights was also shown? Is she aware—
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I am asking a question. Is she aware that the members of the Granada team have now been denied the right ever to return 322 to South Africa, and does not this demand some protest from Her Majesty's Government?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, the main fact about the banning of this film is that all Governments, including our own, have the right to regulate any film material that is shown publicly in their own countries. Therefore we have no grounds for complaint against South Africa in this case.
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, does this really mean that the noble Baroness would think that this country also has the right, or would try, to ban people who had made a film which is innocuous in the eyes of the rest of the world from actually entering this country?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy lords, the question was about the banning of this particular film. I understand that it was shown by students. These students had imported the film privately, and they had not submitted it to the South African Government Publications Control Board.
§ BARONESS LLEWELYN-DAVIES OF HASTOEMy Lords, the South African Government have banned the English people who actually made the film. That was the last of my noble friend's supplementary questions. Do Her Majesty's Government think that a good thing?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, that was not the Question on the Order Paper.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness whether it is not a fact that the Students' Council at Witwatersrand University, where there are many white students, showed films, including this film, showing the denial of civil rights in all parts of the world, including Russia, and that it was after that showing at the university that the film was seized by the South African police?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, it does not alter the fact that the Government of South Africa have the right, through their Publications Control Board, to ban any material, just as we in this country have the right to do so.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, would the Government make it quite clear that they would raise no objection to the cinema of Westminster Hall being used as one of the dumping grounds of this film?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEThat, my Lords, is another question.
§ BARONESS GAITSKELLMy Lords, do not the Government think that it would be a good idea for this film to be sold for screening to the Soviet Union, as they have no immigration problem and, so far as I know, no labour problem?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I am sure that the Granada Television Company will take that question into account.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that I will take an early opportunity to show this film in Westminster Hall so that Members of this House can see it?