§ 11.25 a.m.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have received the E.E.C. Commission's proposals for safeguarding and improving petroleum supplies and its second indicative nuclear programme; and what arrangements are in hand for making these documents available to Members of both Houses of Parliament.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY (THE EARL OF LIMERICK)My Lords, the Government have received the European Commission's recent proposals for energy, including proposals for safeguarding and improving petroleum supplies. Copies of the relevant documents, which are in French, have been placed in the Libraries. The Second Indicative Nuclear Programme has not yet been finalised, but when it is I will ensure that copies are made similarly available.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask him whether he really thinks it is satisfactory that documents which in one case require legislation, and in both cases are relevant to our energy policy, should simply be placed in the Library? Would he not agree that Members are entitled to know what documents are coming along and can be had on demand? Will he ask his noble friends responsible to consider arrangements whereby catalogues can be made available to us all, and that documents that we may want are available in the Printed Paper Office and the Vote Office?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, I understand that this question of documents is under consideration, and I will see that my noble friend's remarks are taken into account. These documents of course are consultative documents, and this one was received only very recently.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, is my noble friend not aware that the Government often issue a Green Paper, or a White Paper, which is consultative and informs the public of policy purposes? Is it not the case here that we have documents not dissimilar in character, but in the European context, and we need to have them available so that we can think about, learn about and follow, and perhaps even comprehend what is proposed in Europe?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKYes, my Lords. But here there is a very long time-scale. This is a study document concerning certain proposals, which may be suitable for the Six, which will now have to be reconsidered in the light of the enlarged membership of the Community.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, if the noble Earl, Lord Lauderdale, will allow another Member of the House to take part in this exchange, may I ask the noble Earl whether he recalls that we had a debate recently on the Communities Bill in which a number of promises and indications of good intentions were declared? Would he not agree that the noble Earl's Question bears directly on points that pro- and anti-Marketeers alike pressed on the Government? When are the Government going to do something about this matter and tell us how they are going to deal with it?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, this document has only just been received, and since it was received it has been made available in the Library.
§ BARONESS WHITEMy Lords, did I understand the noble Earl to say that the document was in French?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKYes, my Lords.
§ BARONESS WHITEMy Lords, is a translation being provided also?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKYes, my Lords; it will be provided. The position is that official translations will not be available of Papers which come up before our formal accession on January 1, but unofficial translations are being prepared and will be made available as soon as possible.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, in view of the growing burdens on our 2259 Library, and now that some knowledge of languages is needed, would the noble Earl ask the Government whether they will look into the question of the staff in your Lordships' Library, who are already getting overworked, to see whether we could have someone there who is available for translations? I think it would help in the future, since we are going into Europe—or have been driven into Europe.
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, that is another Question, but I will pass on what the noble Lord has said.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, can my noble friend tell us whether there will be only one copy put in the Library, or will there be thirty or forty, so that those interested can obtain a copy and study it?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, there will be one copy in the Library.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, does my noble friend really think that that is good enough?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, in the light of the reply that the noble Earl has given, would he consult with his noble friend the Leader of the House to see that ample copies of these Papers are available? The noble Earl, Lord Lauderdale, may have the one copy and monopolise it for some time, thereby denying other noble Lords the opportunity of reading it. Will the noble Earl give an undertaking to look at that matter?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKYes, my Lords; I will certainly see that it is looked at.
§ VISCOUNT AMORYMy Lords, how long it will take us to go through these documents will depend very largely on whether they are in English or in French. I studied French for ten years but I still need to have a dictionary by my side. Perusal of the documents could take a long time.