§ 3.19 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they propose taking for the early introduction of legislation to review and correct the present procedures which would apparently permit a further large inflow of people of alien races.
1410THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSS)My Lords, the new 1971 Immigration Act, which comes fully into force on January 1, gives the Government more effective control over immigration than has ever existed before.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, has the Minister taken notice of the widespread anxiety, as reflected in the Press, at the possibility, apparently, under existing legislation, of a further large inflow of people of alien races into this country; and the Statement made in this House, I' think, that some 300,000 or more people might suffer the same circumstances as the Ugandan incident and could possibly have a right to cone into this country?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSYes, my Lords, the Government are very well aware of the great public anxiety about this situation. We hope and believe that no such further event will happen. But the best and most satisfactory solution, if people were to find they had nowhere to go, would lie in international co-operation, international understanding, on the widest scale. After all, this has stood us in such very good stead in the case of the Ugandan refugees.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, do I understand the noble Viscount to say that the Government propose a review of the procedure affecting the incursion of people of alien races to this country? And if there is to be a review, will this provide for a revision, or perhaps a modification, of the provision in the Treaty of Rome which provides for the free movement of labour?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, the noble Lord misunderstood me. I did not say anything about a review. As for the control of entry of people from the rest of the Common Market countries, this is a matter which is under consideration at the moment as a result of events in another place.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, recognising the serious situation, may I ask whether it is not desirable that there should be a conference with representatives of the Commonwealth countries concerned, to come to an agreement on this issue?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, I think, has asked this question on numerous previous occasions. He will to some extent be reassured by the announcement quite recently of the fullest consultations which are planned with some of the Commonwealth countries. We are of course in close touch with other Commonwealth Governments on all these matters. I do not think that anything will fail through lack of communications between us and our partners in the Commonwealth.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, would the Minister agree that, in view of his statement just now that the Ugandan incident was unforeseen, it is logical to assume that some other similar instances at present cannot be foreseen? Would he therefore urge the Government to reconsider the position, and review the question of the necessity for some clearer indication of what type of papers give permission of entry into this country? I ask this particularly in view of the repeated statements in another place in the debate last week on the completely confused situation existing to-day. May I also ask him to what the Statement of the Secretary of State on October 23, that no specific undertakings were given, had reference? If it is the wish of the House, I can read out the complete Statement.
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, as to the latter part of my noble friend's supplementary question, I am not quite sure to what he is referring. As to the first part, I am all in favour of clarity at all possible points. I have no doubt that my noble friend is right in asking for this. The matter is a little too general perhaps to answer at this stage, but I should be glad to look into it, and I am sure that we can return to it on another occasion.
§ BARONESS GAITSKELLMy Lords, is not the anxiety of the noble Lord, Lord Barnby, completely unnecessary because ultimately is it not the right of any Government to control immigration in certain circumstances?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, I suppose it is the right of Governments to control emigration and immigration, but I think one has to take account of the real anxiety about this 1412 matter at the moment and not to underestimate it. As I have said, the Government do understand public feeling on this and have it very much in mind.
§ LORD WADEMy Lords, should not some care be taken in using such expressions as "alien races"? Is there a precise definition of an "alien race"?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, I did not use that expression. I answered the Question in relation to the Immigration Act 1971, and I think the House is fully aware that this covers, I think, everybody who wants to come into this country for the first time on a uniform basis. I make no distinctions of wording of this sort.
§ BARONESS STOCKSMy Lords, in connection with immigration, is any consideration given to the existing and absolutely uncontrolled immigration from Southern Ireland, which in the last war desired to be regarded, and did still regard itself, as a foreign country?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, the position of Southern Ireland is slightly anomalous, even within this subject matter. There is a different procedure under the British Nationality Act for dealing with citizens of Southern Ireland than for any others. It really is another Question from that on the Order Paper.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, may I, with the indulgence of the House, ask my noble friend whether, in view of the confusion that exists, to which his attention has no doubt been drawn, it is to be understood that there is no likelihood of any intention to try to rectify it?
VISCOUNT COLVILLE OF CULROSSMy Lords, I am not quite sure what it is that I am supposed to be asked to rectify. I do not think I can add to what I have said this afternoon. If my noble friend is not satisfied with that, I am afraid he will have to return to it on a specific Question on another occasion.
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, is it not the fact that we are going to debate this matter in a few days? Would it not be better to leave the debate until that occasion?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, from the growl of assent I think that what the noble Lord, Lord Chalfont, has just said is sage advice. Perhaps, we should now pass on, as we shall be debating this issue next Wednesday.